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[Opening theme music]

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Hello, and welcome to this episode
of ArtsAbly in Conversation.

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My name is Diane Kolin.

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This series presents artists, academics,
and project leaders who dedicate their

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time and energy to a better accessibility
for people with disabilities in the arts.

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You can find more of these conversations
on our website, artsably.com,

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which is spelled A-R-T-S-A-B-L-Y dot com.

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[Theme music]

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Today, ArtsAbly is in conversation with
Gift Tshuma, who is a disability rights activist 

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and a musician, a singer-
songwriter, and a producer

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focusing on emerging music technology
development and collaborative practice.

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You can find the resources mentioned
by Gift Tshuma during this episode

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on ArtsAbly's website, 
in the blog section.

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Hello, everybody.

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Welcome to this new episode
of ArtsAbly in Conversation.

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Today, I am with Gift Tshuma,
who is a disability rights activist

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and also a musician, a singer-songwriter, 

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and a producer, focusing on emerging 
music technology development,

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and collaborative practices.

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Gift, welcome.

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Thank you.
Thank you for having me.

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Thank you for being here today.

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Okay so I am... 
We know each other 

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from other projects 
and other networks.

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I know you're doing a fantastic work
in trying to blur the boundaries, 

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for example, which is one of your project.

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We're going to probably talk about that.

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But before, knowing 
a little bit about you, 

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Can you first of all, present yourself

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and also tell us a little bit more
about your background,

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where you come from, your story.

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Absolutely.

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I'm Gift Tshuma, and I am someone
with a physical disability.

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I'm a wheelchair user.

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I use a power wheelchair, and I am

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African, Black African, born in Zimbabwe.

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I've been basically involved
within the music art scene 

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ever since I was a kid, I would say ever
since I was 10 years old, 

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I was involved within 
music group, choirs, bands.

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And I just never stopped ever since.

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So it's It's been quite a fun,
exciting journey ever since.

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Okay. And so, when did you arrive in Canada

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and what happened from the moment
you arrived in Canada and

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music studies or other studies?

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I arrived in Canada in 2001,

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and I was 12 years old at the time.

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I was pretty young and I had already
been involved in gospel music

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in my home country, in Zimbabwe.

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And I immediately immersed myself

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into the gospel scene in Montreal.

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So I moved to Montreal
when I moved to Canada.

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And I was involved in quite a few
music groups for about 10 years.

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The first 10 years I was here.

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And then I later decided to start my own
choir, my own gospel choir,

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called United Triburation Choir.

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That choir existed for about 14 years.

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It's included 10 musicians and 10 vocalists,

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so it was a 20-member group.

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Just loved gospel music because 
it's all about telling a story

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and it's all about encouraging people
where they are.

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That's why I always gravitated towards
singing gospel music because it just

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was able to elevate me in a way
I didn't experience singing other genres.

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And then in terms of education,I never formally 
studied music or anything like that.

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I grew up in a black church, and 
in those kinds of churches, 

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you learn as you go.
You learn by ear.

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There's no formal musical
educational practice that you do.

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You just watch and learn,
and you basically imitate, you mimic.

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[Laughs]

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You mimic as you go.

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Being part of the children's choir
when I was young, I was taught

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how to harmonize any part,
whether it's tenor, alto, or bass.

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You had to know everyone else's part
in case someone else doesn't

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show up for the concert.

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[Laughs]

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With that, my ear became really good.

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I am not pitch perfect,
but I'm pretty close.

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My ear became really good.

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My musical abilities just

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increased and expanded over the years,

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building on what I had.

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Then I took formal vocal classes.

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I was under a vocal coach.

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His name is Cosimo Oppedisano.

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He's a classical vocalist,

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very well known in Montreal,
and I was under his leadership

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for some time vocally.

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Then I was in another 
vocal coach for gospel 

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under the direction
of Jennifer Meade.

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Through that, I was able to - I was given
the opportunity to meet Oliver Jones,

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the jazz pianist who was world renowned, 

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and he was my mentor

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for quite a bit throughout that time.

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Did you play the harmonica, too?

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I did. I always try to keep that a secret.

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[Laughs.]
Sorry!

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Yes, I did play the harmonica
for quite a long time.

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I played it for 12 years.

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So even when I moved to Canada,
I would either be a vocalist in a band

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or a harmonica player in the band.

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I learned that by ear, actually.

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I was very much inspired by Stevie Wonder
because I just really liked the way

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he played harmonica, how much soul
was infused within harmonica.

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Because it's a hard instrument

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to play to make it sound soulful

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because it's that instrument 
that you hear mostly

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in blues or folk music, 

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you don'thear it within soul R&B as much.

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So I was really intrigued by that,
how he's able to get that sound

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and that emotion out of the harmonica.

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So my obsession, that's where it kind of started.

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It started at seven years old.

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My mother actually bought me
this tiny harmonica that only had

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the C scale on it, and I practiced that.

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Then when I was a teenager, I was able

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to raise a few piggy banks that I had

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and was able to buy a chromatic

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hamaica, which is my introduction

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into the pro instrument.

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When did you start
touching digital instruments?

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Oh, digital instruments,
I started touching them,

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I'll say I was 14, because at that time,

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the way I was looking at musical creation

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was within a very limited view.

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So I thought, why not see what's
out there within the digital world?

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So that whenever I do start my own band,
people can actually play my compositions

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the way I want them to be played.

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I was 14, and my first introduction 
was to FruityLoops.

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I don't know if you know or remember FruityLoops

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but that was my first introduction

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to digital instruments
of making beats through FruityLoops.

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And then I was later introduced

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to Ableton, and then I switched.

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I moved away from Windows.

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I became bougie and then
started using software like Logic

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and other fancy software like Melodyne
and such and digital performer.

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With that shift to more and more

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digital, I would say improvements

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in the digital world, I think
at a certain point you were thinking

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of creating your own instrument.
Am I wrong about that?

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Yeah. That started a little bit later.

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I'd say that started in 2018
in terms of creating my own instrument.

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But in terms of having my compositions
played accurately the way I envisioned them, 

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what I did is I created music using MIDI,

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and I would use Melodyne for pitch
correction and basically sing the bass line, 

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sing the guitar line,
Kind of like scat singing.

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So I'd start my bass line,
guitar line and piano.

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I have it in a media form
and have those who are sight readers

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have it on Sibelius.

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And I was able to have
that presented to my musicians

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so that does it my way of trying to get

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my compositions to be played
the way they should be played.

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Then to create my own instrument

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actually was inspired by a YouTube video

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I came across of John Kelly.

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John Kelly is a fantastic artist

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based in the UK, and he had

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his first edition of the Kellycaster,
and I was just fascinated.

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I was like, wow, he's actually able
to play an instrument of his dreams

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without any boundaries.

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And this led to meeting my 
friend Charles Matthews, 

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who is a programmer, a software engineer, 

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and an artist as well.

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We talked about John, and it so
happened that he was the one

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who developed the Kellycaster alongside John.

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It was like, whoa, I'm meeting the guy

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who was part of this amazing creation.

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Then that's where "Blurring the Boundaries"
was created, was birthed, is that

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I was like, Why don't we start

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an organization that works on creating

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accessible digital instruments
as well as physical instruments.

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That's where "Blurring the Boundaries" began.

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Here we are.

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This was between the UK and Canada,
and you were able to create these bridges

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between several, not only countries, but
several organizations or several artists?

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Yes.

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Yes, yes.

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The Internet is a good thing.
[Laughs.]

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When I connected with Charles,

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it happened that he was in Montreal visiting, 
and we were able to connect.

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Then a year later, we launched
Blurring the Boundaries.

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We actually launched it in the UK
and we invited quite a few artists

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in the UK to come or not and
to see what we have in mind and all that.

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Then we all just stayed in contact and
kept in touch with each other's projects.

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Then I met colleagues here in Canada

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like Adam Bell and Jason Nolan and Kurt [Thumlert].

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Then basically, that's how
the circle of life happened.

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I think David Bobier
was there, too, right?

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David Bobier was there, too.

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Charles is the one who
introduced me to David Bobier.

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Then the three of us, we were
the ones who began

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Blurring the Boundaries and to what it is right now.

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Did you go to the UK to meet
these people in person?

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Yes, we did.

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We had a jam, hackathon session

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that spanned a week, going there,

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tinkering in the lab, and playing
with different things, 

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and blurring the boundaries 
of what's possible.

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Because oftentimes, When it comes to -

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to creativity, when it comes to innovation,

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there's usually boundaries that are set.

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There's usually limits that
are imposed on you.

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And the very basis of Blurring the Boundaries 
is that we push those limits.

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And how do we do that?

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Well, we make something with

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the lens of universal design that nothing

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can be off limits and everything can be
configured to someone's specific needs.

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That's how it came to be.

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Was the Drake Music involved in that?

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Drake Music was involved in
inviting some of their community members

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to our launch session.

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We had our launch at Graeae Theatre
at Drake Music in the UK.

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We had quite a huge turnout.

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Actually, Adam Bell was one of
the audience people there who attended.

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So lucky.
I'm so envious right now!

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I'm just seeing how, yeah.
[Laughs.]

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Yeah.
Fantastic.

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Now you're not in Montreal anymore?

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Now I'm not in Montreal.

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I'm in Mississauga.
I am in Ontario now.

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Are you creating new projects?

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Yes, always.

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Right now, I am in two projects.

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One with CAMIN Project and with FARM
Project, which is a collaboration with

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York University and Western.

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It's a grant that's basically
focusing on amplifying

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artists with disabilities, their creativeness,

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and creating basically anti-ableist
practice within the arts.

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That's essentially where
these projects are coming into play.

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One of the things that I'm working on
is a podcast called Rythms of Access,

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 which will be coming out in the next two months.

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And this is where I'm going
to be interviewing guests

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across the globe, guests who are artists.

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Primarily, I'm focusing on 
musicians and singers,

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just to talk about their work,

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to talk about their creative process,

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what process do they take, how do they 
come to creating what they want,

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and what barriers do they experience within 

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that creative process,
and them sharing what things have worked

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for them within that process
and what hasn't.

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So basically to create this space where
people who are trying to get into the art scene,

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whatever that may look like for them,

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they could be encouraged
and inspired to pursue their dreams

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and to think beyond
the boundaries that have already been set

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by the art industry, the pop culture art industry

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that's usually exclusive.

246
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As a disability rights activist,
it's not your first podcast, right?

247
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You already had some podcast before.

248
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You co-hosted.
I have.

249
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I've co-hosted quite a few.

250
00:19:05,377 --> 00:19:10,516
I've never had one
where it's just me, the host.

251
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So this one is the first.

252
00:19:12,351 --> 00:19:17,289
So I've co-hosted a few,
and it's been largely due to the fact

253
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that I was bored because COVID.

254
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When COVID hit, a lot of my artistic

255
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events stopped for quite a while.

256
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And I was like, What better way
than to have conversations

257
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with people about different things?

258
00:19:36,508 --> 00:19:42,147
So one of the podcast was focusing
on racial issues and disability, and

259
00:19:42,181 --> 00:19:47,519
the other one was focusing on ableism
within the healthcare system

260
00:19:47,553 --> 00:19:50,689
around during COVID time.

261
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Those were the themes that

262
00:19:55,460 --> 00:19:59,264
I was focusing on during that time.

263
00:19:59,298 --> 00:20:05,737
So today, with all these projects
that are here and also collaborations,

264
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I guess you're really working in

265
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what I call disability arts, which is really

266
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connecting with other colleagues.

267
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We met like that, actually.

268
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We met through CAMIN.

269
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I'm also at York University.

270
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It's multiple connections, but all these
connections coming together, this is

271
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this community of artists that we build.

272
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What does it mean for you
to work in that environment?

273
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It's empowering and it's humbling.

274
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It's very humbling because 

275
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I am an activist first and then an artist second.

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And I believe there's a lot of power
in having lots of voices,

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creating something beautiful.

278
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And being able to be in spaces
where you're surrounded by

279
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extremely intelligent artist,
extremely creative artists, 

280
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it's really something that many people 
don't get the opportunity to experience.

281
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And what we experienced that weekend
at the RE/Lab, Diane, was very special.

282
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And I just want more communities

283
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around the globe to exist
the way we that weekend.

284
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I want people to actually create those
moments, to create those communities

285
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within their respective environments

286
00:21:49,174 --> 00:21:52,277
so that they can lift each other up, 

287
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encourage each other up,
and support each other in projects.

288
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Because when that happens,
there's no competition.

289
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There's a community, right?

290
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I think that's something that people,
as artists, we should remember that

291
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when we lift someone else up,
we are also lifting ourselves up,

292
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and we are learning from that.

293
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In England, because disability arts, 
but also activism 

294
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between people with disabilities 
in the social world

295
00:22:37,189 --> 00:22:40,992
started really earlier than in Canada

296
00:22:40,992 --> 00:22:43,128
or in the US, it was already here.

297
00:22:43,161 --> 00:22:46,164
But I'm talking really about the arts.

298
00:22:46,198 --> 00:22:50,736
The movements were really shaking
the world and saying, We are artists.

299
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We also happen to be disabled,
but we are artists before.

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In the UK, they are believing in that
for a very long time and they give money.

301
00:23:02,414 --> 00:23:10,255
This is a support of the idea
that communities of artists can come.

302
00:23:10,288 --> 00:23:16,094
I don't know how we can do that in Canada,
but with all your experience of

303
00:23:16,094 --> 00:23:22,200
working with these communities and also
working with UK and working with Canada

304
00:23:22,234 --> 00:23:25,637
to get some funding to do some projects,

305
00:23:25,637 --> 00:23:28,140
How can we - do you have an idea of that?

306
00:23:28,140 --> 00:23:32,844
How can we get
more of these communities together?

307
00:23:32,878 --> 00:23:36,481
Personally, in the foundation
of humility, right? 

308
00:23:36,481 --> 00:23:40,819
Because I feel that there's 
always this intimidation.

309
00:23:40,819 --> 00:23:46,925
Someone mentioned this during
that weekend at the RE/Lab, that

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if someone is not within the educational
sector, within the arts,

311
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they feel that they're not an artist.

312
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And vice versa.

313
00:23:56,735 --> 00:24:02,307
Those who are in the education sector,
they feel that they're boxing themselves in 

314
00:24:03,241 --> 00:24:06,812
because the creative process

315
00:24:06,845 --> 00:24:09,114
functions a different way.

316
00:24:09,147 --> 00:24:12,651
I think what should be understood

317
00:24:12,651 --> 00:24:16,321
is that creativity is creativity.

318
00:24:16,354 --> 00:24:22,928
Expression of art is expression of art,
regardless of what environment you're in.

319
00:24:22,928 --> 00:24:28,333
And that art in education

320
00:24:28,366 --> 00:24:32,871
and within outside education can coexist,

321
00:24:32,904 --> 00:24:38,243
and creativity can happen,
and it can happening in a beautiful way,

322
00:24:38,276 --> 00:24:41,880
whether it's in a formal setting
or an informal setting.

323
00:24:41,913 --> 00:24:46,918
And that was evident in that CAMIN event

324
00:24:46,952 --> 00:24:50,655
that we did, where we had artists

325
00:24:50,655 --> 00:24:54,960
from all backgrounds coming together

326
00:24:54,993 --> 00:24:59,798
and just creating beautiful music.

327
00:24:59,831 --> 00:25:05,337
So I think the barrier needs to be broken between

328
00:25:06,104 --> 00:25:11,176
that education-related artists and

329
00:25:11,176 --> 00:25:15,113
folks who are not part
of the educational system.

330
00:25:15,180 --> 00:25:19,885
It's all about collaborative work anyway.

331
00:25:19,918 --> 00:25:23,521
Exactly. Exactly.

332
00:25:23,822 --> 00:25:25,891
That's where I would start.

333
00:25:25,891 --> 00:25:32,397
And when we look at the CAMIN grant,
for example, Blurring the Boundaries

334
00:25:32,430 --> 00:25:35,133
is a standalone organization.

335
00:25:35,133 --> 00:25:41,406
We were able to partner with
Western University and York.

336
00:25:41,439 --> 00:25:47,746
That's just to show you that it is
possible to collaborate, even if you're

337
00:25:47,779 --> 00:25:52,150
all from different schools of thought.

338
00:25:52,183 --> 00:25:55,453
Very good.
I really believe in what you say.

339
00:25:55,453 --> 00:26:02,093
I'm an academic, but I'm also, before
being an academic, I'm a musician, right?

340
00:26:02,127 --> 00:26:06,131
I'm a singer.
I'm a voice teacher for children.

341
00:26:06,131 --> 00:26:11,736
Being an academic brought me something,
gave me some extra things,

342
00:26:11,770 --> 00:26:18,476
but it will never be more important
than the other or something like that.

343
00:26:18,510 --> 00:26:24,816
I believe also in the power of music
education because by transmitting these

344
00:26:24,849 --> 00:26:29,187
to younger generation, then in the way
we are transmitting it, 

345
00:26:29,187 --> 00:26:34,259
they are becoming more open 
and they are becoming more...

346
00:26:34,292 --> 00:26:37,429
They are developing
this spirit of collaboration

347
00:26:37,429 --> 00:26:41,032
that we try to transmit them.

348
00:26:41,066 --> 00:26:42,567
Absolutely.

349
00:26:43,168 --> 00:26:47,339
Speaking of collaboration, I wonder if you

350
00:26:47,372 --> 00:26:52,944
have someone you could think of in terms

351
00:26:52,978 --> 00:26:59,317
of inspiration or in terms of someone
who was important for you in your career

352
00:26:59,351 --> 00:27:04,255
in all your environments you worked in.

353
00:27:04,289 --> 00:27:10,729
If you had one or two people or more
to mention, who would it be and why?

354
00:27:10,862 --> 00:27:13,164
Yeah, absolutely.

355
00:27:13,298 --> 00:27:17,602
When I was a kid singing in choirs and such, 

356
00:27:17,602 --> 00:27:22,574
my inspiration was Stevie Wonder.

357
00:27:23,141 --> 00:27:26,811
The reason why Stevie Wonder
was my inspiration is because 

358
00:27:26,811 --> 00:27:31,883
I didn't have anyone else that looked like me.

359
00:27:31,916 --> 00:27:36,121
That was - closely looked like me.

360
00:27:36,154 --> 00:27:42,127
He was a black man,
and he has a disability, 

361
00:27:42,127 --> 00:27:44,829
and I have a disability, 
and I'm a black man.

362
00:27:44,863 --> 00:27:48,299
I'd never seen anyone else.

363
00:27:48,466 --> 00:27:52,804
Ray Charles was a bit too old 
for me to know his music, but 

364
00:27:52,804 --> 00:27:58,710
Stevie Wonder was within my age of interest.

365
00:27:58,743 --> 00:28:05,750
So he was the first inspiration
that I was interested in because

366
00:28:05,784 --> 00:28:10,955
I kind of like identified with his experiences,

367
00:28:10,955 --> 00:28:14,392
I identified with his creative process.

368
00:28:14,426 --> 00:28:20,732
So he was my number one fan person for me.

369
00:28:20,732 --> 00:28:25,570
And then second, I'll say it's John Kelly.

370
00:28:25,603 --> 00:28:28,773
He's going to kill me when I say this.

371
00:28:29,407 --> 00:28:33,678
But John Kelly inspires me greatly.

372
00:28:33,711 --> 00:28:38,717
Again, he looks like me,
an artist with a disability

373
00:28:38,750 --> 00:28:43,555
who has also a heart for advocacy.

374
00:28:43,588 --> 00:28:48,760
If you look at Stevie Wonder
and John Kelly, both of their music

375
00:28:48,793 --> 00:28:52,630
talk about advocacy, activism.

376
00:28:53,364 --> 00:28:57,402
Stevie Wonder at the time
was talking about racism and war

377
00:28:57,435 --> 00:29:00,739
that was going on around the world.

378
00:29:00,772 --> 00:29:03,675
John Kelly is talking about issues
that are happening within

379
00:29:03,675 --> 00:29:08,513
the disability community in his music.

380
00:29:08,546 --> 00:29:15,420
I'm an activist, and that really
resonates with me a lot.

381
00:29:17,021 --> 00:29:24,696
John Kelly's message is:
be firm when you're doing advocacy work, 

382
00:29:24,696 --> 00:29:27,198
but do it out of love.

383
00:29:27,232 --> 00:29:29,601
Do it out of love.

384
00:29:29,634 --> 00:29:32,537
Don't be too harsh,
but be firm and out of love.

385
00:29:32,570 --> 00:29:36,608
That really speaks to me greatly.

386
00:29:36,608 --> 00:29:43,114
I feel honored that he's my friend,
and I'm able to just pick up your phone

387
00:29:43,114 --> 00:29:48,586
and call him and be like, Hey, John,
how would you handle this?

388
00:29:48,620 --> 00:29:51,189
Those are my two.

389
00:29:51,256 --> 00:29:52,590
Very nice.

390
00:29:52,624 --> 00:30:00,398
It's funny. John Kelly came back 
several times in our conversations,

391
00:30:00,431 --> 00:30:01,733
but also with other guests.

392
00:30:01,766 --> 00:30:04,435
Yes.
Oh, John Kelly.

393
00:30:04,469 --> 00:30:06,271
Absolutely.

394
00:30:06,304 --> 00:30:07,972
John Kelly, if you hear that,

395
00:30:08,006 --> 00:30:09,140
we love you.

396
00:30:09,174 --> 00:30:12,043
Absolutely.
We're a fan.

397
00:30:12,043 --> 00:30:13,611
Very fan.

398
00:30:13,611 --> 00:30:17,882
Okay. Thank you so much 
for this conversation.

399
00:30:18,616 --> 00:30:21,986
And I wish you all the best for your upcoming

400
00:30:22,020 --> 00:30:25,223
podcast and all the other projects

401
00:30:25,256 --> 00:30:27,225
that are coming that are very exciting.

402
00:30:27,258 --> 00:30:29,260
Thank you so much.

403
00:30:29,394 --> 00:30:31,663
Really appreciate.
And see you around.

404
00:30:31,663 --> 00:30:36,234
Thank you for having me
and for thinking of me.

405
00:30:36,234 --> 00:30:41,306
I'm looking forward to see what else
is to come with ArtsAbly

406
00:30:41,339 --> 00:30:45,643
and to assist in any way I can.

407
00:30:45,677 --> 00:30:47,111
Thank you so much.

408
00:30:47,145 --> 00:30:48,947
And yeah, me too.

409
00:30:48,947 --> 00:30:51,716
I would love to assist in any way I can.

410
00:30:51,716 --> 00:30:53,384
Absolutely.

411
00:30:54,018 --> 00:30:55,753
Okay.
Have a good day.

412
00:30:55,787 --> 00:30:56,888
You too.

413
00:30:56,888 --> 00:30:58,089
Bye.

414
00:30:59,724 --> 00:31:04,863
[Closing theme music]