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[Opening theme music]

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Hello, and welcome to this episode
of ArtsAbly in Conversation.

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My name is Diane Kolin.

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This series presents artists, academics,
and project leaders who dedicate their

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time and energy to a better accessibility
for people with disabilities in the arts.

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You can find more of these conversations
on our website, artsably.com,

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which is spelled A-R-T-S-A-B-L-Y dot com.

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[Theme music]

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Today, ArtsAbly is in conversation
with Susan Farrell, a choir director,

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a musical director, and conductor
of several choirs in Edmonton in Alberta.

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You can find the resources mentioned
by Susan Farrell during this episode 

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on ArtsAbly's website in the blog section.

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My name is Susan Farrell, and I'm the 
Artistic Director of the Braille Tone choirs.

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[music]

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The Braille Tone Music Society
has three different choirs.

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We have the Braille Tone Choirs for adults, 
The Semitones choir for kids and youth, 

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and we also have a Ukulele
choir, and we also have 

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music lesson subsidy for people with disabilities 
who want to learn an instrument on their own.

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I think in our society, it's easy
to overlook people with disabilities

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for needing to have programs like this,
but it's an incredible thing when you see

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folks come out to programs like this,
like Braille Tones and Semitones.

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You just see that everybody needs a place
to be themselves and to express themselves 

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and to be able to be creative
with other people and find their voice.

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There's a place for everybody
in this organization, so 

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don't feel to sign up and come check us out.

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Welcome to this new episode
of ArtsAbly in Conversation.

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Today, I am with Susan Farrell,
who is a choir director, a musical director, 

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and a conductor of
several choirs in Edmonton in Alberta.

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Susan, welcome.

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Thank you, Diane.
It's great to be here.

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Thank you for joining us.

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You have a very active life
in Edmonton right now.

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I know that you are the Artistic Director
of the Braille Tones 

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and also the Semitones Children's
Choir, also music director 

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at St. Paul's United Church.

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You are conducting other choirs.

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We're going to discover that today.

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You're doing a lot with children
and with adults.

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And before going to what 
you're doing right now,

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I am very interested in what brought you

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to all that and how you became the 

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choir director and conductor you are today.

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So what is your background?

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Right. So, I started with the Braille Tones 
in 2010, I want to say, 

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because I have done my Master's at the University of Alberta
in choir directing, in choral conducting.

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And I'm originally from Nova Scotia,
but I had come here for my master's.

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And I was at a crossroads.

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I didn't have a one job lined up

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that was going to cover my career.

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It was just - I was working at a bakery
and trying to figure out 

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what choirs I was going to do 
and get some experience.

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And I had this opportunity
to work with the Braille Tones because

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Carmen So who's a conductor and 
teacher here in Edmonton, 

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is a friend of mine through the Korora Choirs.

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And we were singing together
in Orán, which is the adult choir.

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And she was looking for someone
to start helping out with the idea

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of maybe taking it over eventually.

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And I said, well, I don't know anything
about Braille Tones or about

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conducting folks with disabilities.

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I don't have any experience,
but I'm willing to learn. Let's try.

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And so I came on for a year
and got my feet wet.

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But I felt out of my element,
I didn't know.

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One of my professors who had great intentions 
and that kind of thing, she said, 

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How do you conduct a blind choir?

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Because her whole thing was like with your
gestures, because that's what we worked on

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for two years, was concentrating on
how you move your arms and your hands so that 

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your singers reflect what you want.

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But it was this whole new way of learning
for me, and I really loved it.

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It was a big challenge
for me to go outside that box,

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but I ended up taking the group on my own
the next year from Carmen So in 2011.

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And the choir was so patient with me as I
figured things out and let go of

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some notions I had about how
perfect something had to be and seeing how

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we could make progress in new ways, like
engaging a singer in a different way or

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finding the way that works to teach
that one singer who has a different need.

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And the challenge was
actually really wonderful.

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And I got back to the heart of what choir
music was after being so very technical

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in my masters, which was helpful.

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But also I got into choir in the first place 
because of the heart and soul of it.

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And so once I can kind of like revive that part of myself,

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it was a lot easier to go there.

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And so that's kind of how 
I started with the Braille tones.

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Okay, but I want to go
back to the Master's.

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So you were in choral conducting studies, right?

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Yeah.
What did you - Why?

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When did you decided to go to,
Okay, I'm going to be a conductor?

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Oh, good question.
Well, I joined a choir when I was nine.

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I joined the Pictou district Honor Choir 
in Nova Scotia, and I had the best time.

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I was the keenest of all the keen choir

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singers, and I had a group of...

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All my friends were in choir with me.

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When I was looking at what I was going
to do in university, I was like, Well,

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I think I want to do choir.

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I want to keep doing this.

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And I realized, Oh, I'll have
to get my piano skills up to stuff.

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So I changed piano teachers and 
got a bit of piano experience,

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enough so that I could do an audition, and ended up 
at Mount Allison University in New Brunswick.

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And just really loved singing in
the Elliott Chorale at that university and met -

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Some of my friends from choir from
high school were also there, 

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Scott Jones and Laura McLain, and these folks
who are still working in the arts.

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And that was where my motivation
for being in music studies at all

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was to do this choir singing thing.

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The piano learning was great.

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I learned a lot of skills, but also I was a mess 
when it came to performing, I would just...

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My legs would be shaking,
my hands would be shaking, 

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and I knew this wasn't what I wanted to do.

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I was happy to teach, but
the performing piano was not for me.

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And then I got in front
of a choir in my third year.

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You don't do choral conducting
maybe third year or fourth year.

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And I was like, Oh,
this is comfortable, because I was not

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facing the audience anymore.

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I had all this amazing energy
coming to me from the group,

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and I was no longer nervous.

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I was just in it.

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I was making the music I was doing
the thing together with the people

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in the choir, and that was when I
was like, it's like an aha moment, right?

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And then when I looked at Master's,
I thought, Well, I could do education

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and go back to my small town,
Nova Scotia, and that could be it.

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Or I could try for this Master's program
in choral conducting and see.

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And so I got in and the rest is history.

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It's interesting that when you
do that studies, you are learning how to,

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as you were saying, be perfect
in your motions to conduct the choir.

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And in a way, in university,
we learn perfection.

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We learn how to be perfect in
our movements, how to be understandable

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for people who are directed.

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Then you have your experience here
that you had,

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and you had to unlearn and relearn.

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That's very interesting
how to change your own...

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The whole years of educations
to be able to discover a new territory.

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Absolutely.

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Yeah, and think outside the box.

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And I know I had one of the Braille Tones
who had been there for a long time.

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It was two or three years
into me leading the group, and he had

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been there for a decade, probably.

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And he said, I really like it when
we don't take ourselves too seriously.

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And he was an excellent bass singer.

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He got everything the second time around.

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He could be in an excellent choir
that's doing the highest standard

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of things that way.

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But his goal was to connect with others
and to have a musical experience

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that was satisfying and
connecting him with other people.

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I don't know how else
to say it, but just...

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And that was another one of those moments
of, Okay, this is what we're going for.

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These are our goals.

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Just like readjusting your lens on it.

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What is the story of the
Braille Tones exactly?

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When was it created?

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The Braille Tones was started
1996, the same year that

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Korora Choirs were started,
actually, and by the same person.

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So Scott Leithead started it.

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And he was approached by somebody from
the Institute for the Blind in Edmonton

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because they had a conversation
group, like a Toastmasters group.

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That still happens.
It happens on Sunday morning still.

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But they wanted to also have a choir.

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And so Scott came in and started doing
just Saturday morning rehearsals where

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it would be right after the Toastmasters
group, and they would sing for an hour.

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And they started off with unison,
and then they would do two parts.

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And then he brought in
some of his young singers

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from Korora Choir to do section leading.

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So then they could sing in four parts
because they had these leaders.

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And then they started welcoming people
with other disabilities.

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So it started off with of
visually impaired folks,

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and then it started expanding.

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I don't know how that exactly happened,
but it happened naturally, I guess.

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And then he did it for a number
of years, and then his student, Carmen,

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took it over before I did.

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So that's the history.

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And we still have people
in the group who were there in '96.

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Oh, wow.

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Maybe four singers out of 25.

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That's amazing.
Yeah.

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Carrying the history of the Braille Tones.

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Yeah. And they still remember 
a bunch of the songs they did.

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They remember their part.

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It's amazing, just the history
and the the lour with Braille Tones.

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How big is the choir?

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We have about 25 singers
in the adult choir.

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That's pretty consistent.

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That's including the four section leaders.

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And what is your process of learning and

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conducting them, working together?

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Yeah.

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So like I said, we have those
section leaders who are very essential

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to making sure everybody gets
what they need out of the experience.

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So there is one so for the folks in their section.

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We try to provide, so, rehearsal tracks
as much as possible for our pieces

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because we do sing in four parts.

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We try to do I do a word booklet 

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with just the words, 

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and I try to do a coil-bound one 
that's good for the whole year.

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Hopefully, we don't add other
pieces, but obviously, that can happen.

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I do enlarged scores as well.

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Some of our folks with visual impairment
have an iPad or tablet.

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They can just
change the font size themselves.

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So I'll send up PDFs as well
of either the music or the lyrics.

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We have the actual scores
and enlarged options.

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And then, if things come up, I know
there are some folks who will 

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write stuff out for themselves in Braille at home.

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I would say out of the whole choir,
probably a quarter of the choir 

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has visual impairment, so 
it's not the whole choir.

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And I often get the question,
Oh, what's Braille music look like?

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And I would love to know more
about Braille music, but

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we have traditionally learned
by wrote, and it's worked quite well.

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We do a lot of repetition.

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I start back at the beginning,
do you know what I mean?

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Like with a song several weeks in a row
for that repetition, and try to do it

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from a slightly different angle
or try to keep it interesting.

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But we do take our time
to learn so that it's really...

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And my music choices very intentional with

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repeated lyrics, or sometimes...

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I think we've done about
every choir piece that has an ou

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or an ah chorus or that kind of thing, 

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just to try to keep it simple with the text.

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So it's challenging, but not

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too challenging that it's not approachable.

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And we try to sing
all quality choral music 

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as well as some pop stuff, 
but good arrangements.

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And we also have - our accompanist
is an arranger as well, Caitlyn.

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So she's done a number
of things for us that way.

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And if we're having trouble with
something, she could rewrite a piece.

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So all those things come into play. Yeah.

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Plus, you seem to have fun.

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Yeah, we do. We have so much fun.

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It's hilarious.

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I think about, not to say we didn't
struggle during the pandemic, we did.

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But I had incredible attendance on my
Zoom rehearsals on Saturday morning.

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I had probably 25 singers often online
because it's accessible

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as one thing, right? Of course, nobody 
had to leave their house.

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00:15:56,922 --> 00:16:02,227
But also people were just so happy to
hear each other, see each other, 

229
00:16:02,227 --> 00:16:04,630
listen to some music together, sing a bit.

230
00:16:04,630 --> 00:16:09,368
But the community is just so strong.

231
00:16:09,401 --> 00:16:11,403
It's amazing.
Yeah.

232
00:16:12,004 --> 00:16:14,106
And you also have...

233
00:16:14,106 --> 00:16:16,208
You talked about 

234
00:16:16,208 --> 00:16:20,379
the Korora community choir.

235
00:16:20,379 --> 00:16:25,217
and I think you're leading
two choirs over there?

236
00:16:25,217 --> 00:16:27,319
Also children and adults?

237
00:16:27,353 --> 00:16:28,320
Yeah.

238
00:16:28,354 --> 00:16:31,790
I do Tamariki, which is the youngest group,

239
00:16:31,790 --> 00:16:34,426
age 5 to 9.

240
00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:39,665
My two kids are in that with me,
which is pretty fun.

241
00:16:39,965 --> 00:16:44,370
I started that two years ago.

242
00:16:44,470 --> 00:16:51,710
But I've been doing assistant directing
for Orán for 12 years or so.

243
00:16:51,710 --> 00:16:55,447
That's the adult choir
that's after Korora.

244
00:16:55,714 --> 00:16:57,683
What's the particularity of these choirs?

245
00:16:57,716 --> 00:17:02,688
What kind of repertoire are you
singing with them, or make them sing?

246
00:17:02,721 --> 00:17:08,160
Yeah.
Well, Tamariki is typical

247
00:17:09,361 --> 00:17:12,097
kindergarten to Grade 3 music, so we're doing

248
00:17:12,097 --> 00:17:15,200
Kodály-based teaching.

249
00:17:15,300 --> 00:17:18,570
Amy Voyer and I are the 
two directors, and so 

250
00:17:18,570 --> 00:17:24,243
she's a music teacher in school, so I get a lot
of my inspiration from what she does.

251
00:17:24,276 --> 00:17:29,848
And so we sing at the Christmas concert
in the spring, and we did a song

252
00:17:29,848 --> 00:17:32,518
called Thunder and Lightning 
this year in the spring, and 

253
00:17:32,518 --> 00:17:35,154
we get to sing with the other 
choirs as well in the organization.

254
00:17:35,154 --> 00:17:41,460
There's 300 singers overall in 
the whole Korora Choir Association.

255
00:17:42,461 --> 00:17:48,133
And then Orán does more like divisi,

256
00:17:48,133 --> 00:17:51,703
S-S-A-A-T-T-B-B, like larger works

257
00:17:51,737 --> 00:17:55,574
and more challenging stuff.

258
00:17:55,607 --> 00:17:59,011
We're a higher level choir,
and we do tours, and 

259
00:17:59,011 --> 00:18:01,847
we were in Yellowknife this year, 

260
00:18:01,847 --> 00:18:05,317
and we've been to Podium a couple 
of times performing as well.

261
00:18:05,317 --> 00:18:07,653
So, yeah.

262
00:18:08,053 --> 00:18:09,455
Awesome.

263
00:18:09,488 --> 00:18:10,956
Wow, what a life.

264
00:18:10,956 --> 00:18:13,292
Yeah. It's very full and very wonderful.

265
00:18:13,292 --> 00:18:15,928
I feel very fortunate.
Absolutely.

266
00:18:16,361 --> 00:18:18,831
Can you talk your role as
a director of music 

267
00:18:18,831 --> 00:18:21,500
at St. Paul's United Church?

268
00:18:21,533 --> 00:18:22,968
Yeah.

269
00:18:23,068 --> 00:18:30,576
I lead the music there with Tyson
Kerr, who's my organist and pianist.

270
00:18:30,609 --> 00:18:36,281
I've been doing that again for about
that same number of years, 12, 13 years.

271
00:18:37,182 --> 00:18:39,718
St. Paul's is a great church to work at.

272
00:18:39,751 --> 00:18:43,255
It's an affirming congregation.

273
00:18:43,288 --> 00:18:49,695
My goal with them lately has been
challenging that affirming designation.

274
00:18:49,695 --> 00:18:52,931
I don't know if you've heard
of that before, but it's 

275
00:18:52,931 --> 00:18:57,369
affirming of gender and sexual diversity.

276
00:18:57,369 --> 00:19:01,106
I don't have the list in front of me, but there's 
a number of things it's affirming of.

277
00:19:01,106 --> 00:19:04,510
Generally, we've been focusing
on the gender and sexual diversity piece,

278
00:19:04,510 --> 00:19:08,547
which is obviously incredibly
important, especially these days.

279
00:19:08,547 --> 00:19:15,120
But there's equally important
parts in there of ability,

280
00:19:15,153 --> 00:19:22,027
affirming of all abilities,
affirming of all ages, races, cultures.

281
00:19:22,027 --> 00:19:25,597
There's a number, there's a list
of things that the affirming designation

282
00:19:25,631 --> 00:19:28,967
in the United Church signifies.

283
00:19:29,001 --> 00:19:34,339
And my challenge to them in the last two
or three years has been to say,

284
00:19:34,373 --> 00:19:38,944
Okay, so we say we're affirming of
all abilities, but why is there no 

285
00:19:38,944 --> 00:19:41,880
button on the door to get to the elevator?

286
00:19:41,914 --> 00:19:43,782
Why does somebody have
to hold a door for...

287
00:19:43,815 --> 00:19:48,921
And why do we have these fire doors
that aren't automatically

288
00:19:48,954 --> 00:19:51,190
shut at a time of fire?
They have to be always shut.

289
00:19:51,190 --> 00:19:53,192
They can't be open.

290
00:19:54,226 --> 00:20:00,699
As a wheelchair user, you know about 
all these places that say they're accessible, but 

291
00:20:00,699 --> 00:20:02,701
are they really?
You know, that kind of thing.

292
00:20:02,701 --> 00:20:07,272
So that's my little challenge

293
00:20:07,272 --> 00:20:10,275
to the Saint Paul's Church these days.

294
00:20:10,309 --> 00:20:15,314
And they've been very gracious,
and we've been working together.

295
00:20:15,347 --> 00:20:18,317
Their elevator is beautiful and brand new.

296
00:20:18,350 --> 00:20:22,421
Our space, and Braille Tones rehearses
there, is the other part of me being very

297
00:20:22,454 --> 00:20:28,260
passionate about it because I see it week
to week, the challenges that come up.

298
00:20:28,293 --> 00:20:31,697
So we rehearse in the large basement room

299
00:20:31,730 --> 00:20:34,299
that's all been newly renovated in 2020

300
00:20:34,333 --> 00:20:37,603
so it's a lovely big open space.

301
00:20:37,636 --> 00:20:39,504
So yeah, I love working there.

302
00:20:39,538 --> 00:20:41,006
We have a great team,

303
00:20:41,039 --> 00:20:46,411
and they're very receptive of my 

304
00:20:46,411 --> 00:20:51,183
focus on disability rights 
and that kind of thing.

305
00:20:51,183 --> 00:20:55,420
I was going to ask about exactly
that topic, the accessibility

306
00:20:55,454 --> 00:20:58,790
of the places of your performers.

307
00:20:58,790 --> 00:21:04,763
When you are performing with ensembles
with individuals with disabilities,

308
00:21:04,796 --> 00:21:09,568
you have to make sure that
the different venues are accessible.

309
00:21:09,601 --> 00:21:14,272
What is your process
in finding these venues?

310
00:21:14,306 --> 00:21:17,943
Are you always performing in the
same venues or are you changing, 

311
00:21:17,943 --> 00:21:21,013
trying to do tours or something like that?

312
00:21:21,046 --> 00:21:22,781
Yes, we haven't done many tours.

313
00:21:22,814 --> 00:21:26,184
I would love to do
some more in the future.

314
00:21:26,218 --> 00:21:32,391
But basically, the majority
of our performances right now

315
00:21:32,424 --> 00:21:35,594
do happen at Saint Paul's United
because we know the space.

316
00:21:35,627 --> 00:21:37,262
People are used to it.

317
00:21:37,296 --> 00:21:43,702
It's like that issue of accessibility, of
course, of actually entering the building

318
00:21:43,735 --> 00:21:48,707
and getting to the performance space and 
also having accessible washrooms available, 

319
00:21:48,707 --> 00:21:53,712
enough of them, and
Saint Paul fits those criteria.

320
00:21:55,247 --> 00:22:02,220
There's that, and that the performers 
could get onto the stage with a - 

321
00:22:02,220 --> 00:22:06,792
like the stage in the sanctuary, 
but up on the ramp.

322
00:22:06,792 --> 00:22:09,361
That's important to have for us.

323
00:22:09,394 --> 00:22:14,132
And now when we've gone to other places,
so we also did a concert at -

324
00:22:14,166 --> 00:22:17,102
and I talked about this in our Podium
session, we were talking

325
00:22:17,102 --> 00:22:20,806
about accessibility because we had
a concert at the Stanley Milner Library,

326
00:22:20,806 --> 00:22:26,044
downtown Edmonton, which 
has been newly renovated 

327
00:22:26,044 --> 00:22:28,113
in the last number of years.

328
00:22:28,146 --> 00:22:34,252
And they have a beautiful theater
in the basement that's accessible

329
00:22:34,286 --> 00:22:37,889
through the parking parkade and

330
00:22:37,889 --> 00:22:40,358
through an elevator that works well, 

331
00:22:40,358 --> 00:22:43,095
and there's accessible washrooms, 

332
00:22:43,095 --> 00:22:48,734
and the audience is accessible 
as well as the stage.

333
00:22:48,734 --> 00:22:51,603
So that was important
to me because what happened...

334
00:22:51,636 --> 00:22:54,840
So we had our dress rehearsal
in that space,

335
00:22:54,873 --> 00:22:58,276
and it's a goal for us,
if we're going to be in a new space,

336
00:22:58,310 --> 00:23:02,381
that we have this opportunity to have
a dress rehearsal there,

337
00:23:02,381 --> 00:23:07,052
like a week in advance or a few weeks
in advance so that anybody

338
00:23:07,052 --> 00:23:13,825
with accessibility needs can try it out.

339
00:23:13,825 --> 00:23:18,497
But also with the idea of 
neurodiverse folks in the choir,

340
00:23:18,530 --> 00:23:24,269
anybody on the autism spectrum,
anybody with anxiety, anything like that,

341
00:23:24,269 --> 00:23:31,009
they can be there on a non-concert day
to get the lay of the land,

342
00:23:31,042 --> 00:23:34,513
to feel like they know what to expect.

343
00:23:34,513 --> 00:23:37,082
And so that's really important to us.

344
00:23:37,115 --> 00:23:42,387
So we had the dress rehearsal
March 9th this year, 

345
00:23:42,387 --> 00:23:45,423
and March 16th was supposed 
to be our concert.

346
00:23:45,457 --> 00:23:49,461
And we got out all bugs.
We figured out

347
00:23:50,395 --> 00:23:54,232
everybody was on time.

348
00:23:54,232 --> 00:23:57,702
We figured out that the 
public transportation worked

349
00:23:57,736 --> 00:23:59,704
to get there and all that.

350
00:23:59,738 --> 00:24:02,507
And then by the time March 16th
rolled around, there was

351
00:24:02,541 --> 00:24:04,676
an impending labor disruption.

352
00:24:04,709 --> 00:24:08,480
They were supposed to have
a strike, the library workers.

353
00:24:08,513 --> 00:24:14,486
So they canceled our concert,
our booking, March 14th or March 13th,

354
00:24:14,519 --> 00:24:17,222
something like that, a few days before.

355
00:24:18,056 --> 00:24:25,363
And so we had this option
to go to a different venue

356
00:24:25,397 --> 00:24:27,632
because the band was booked.

357
00:24:27,666 --> 00:24:32,304
We had Michelle & Friends,
our local children's entertainers,

358
00:24:32,337 --> 00:24:37,876
booked to do this concert with us, and
they're busy musicians, and 

359
00:24:37,876 --> 00:24:39,911
they don't have a whole lot of flexibility.

360
00:24:39,911 --> 00:24:42,480
So we thought, Oh,
maybe we can try another venue.

361
00:24:42,514 --> 00:24:45,584
But it had to be downtown
because we had this specific grant

362
00:24:45,617 --> 00:24:49,287
to do a downtown concert, downtown
Edmonton, with a certain radius

363
00:24:49,287 --> 00:24:53,892
of area that we could be in.

364
00:24:54,626 --> 00:25:01,266
But the other venues that we found,
sometimes you could get on the stage,

365
00:25:01,266 --> 00:25:04,069
but you couldn't be in the audience.

366
00:25:04,069 --> 00:25:09,207
I thought that was really counter

367
00:25:09,808 --> 00:25:12,310
our themes to have...

368
00:25:12,310 --> 00:25:16,047
to be able to have our performers on stage 
but not have a wheelchair user in the audience.

369
00:25:16,047 --> 00:25:19,317
That doesn't seem like it makes any sense.

370
00:25:19,351 --> 00:25:20,852
And these were newer venues in Edmonton.

371
00:25:20,852 --> 00:25:24,589
I don't understand how
that is still a thing.

372
00:25:24,990 --> 00:25:27,292
And there's a number 
of churches, but again, 

373
00:25:27,292 --> 00:25:30,562
not being able to get onto the stage often.

374
00:25:30,562 --> 00:25:36,601
And just to have that quick turnaround
with our population we have in our choir,

375
00:25:36,635 --> 00:25:38,403
not being able to do a dress rehearsal.

376
00:25:38,436 --> 00:25:40,538
It just seemed way too rushed.

377
00:25:40,572 --> 00:25:45,510
And the granting agency, the city of Edmonton, 
who was giving us the grant, said, 

378
00:25:45,510 --> 00:25:49,281
You can change the date, 
that's fine, we'll work with it.

379
00:25:49,281 --> 00:25:53,251
And so we ended up 
picking a date in April 

380
00:25:53,251 --> 00:25:57,255
where we had two of the three band members
and they had to find a new drummer.

381
00:25:57,289 --> 00:26:01,192
But it was important for us to be, and
then we could rebook the library space

382
00:26:01,192 --> 00:26:03,561
that we had already tried out.

383
00:26:03,595 --> 00:26:07,399
And that was just absolutely
the best decision.

384
00:26:07,432 --> 00:26:08,400
But it was hard.

385
00:26:08,433 --> 00:26:12,470
It's like people asking you 
to pivot so quickly, but

386
00:26:12,470 --> 00:26:16,174
you have to take care of 
your population in your choir.

387
00:26:16,207 --> 00:26:18,276
And I'm glad we made the decision we made.

388
00:26:18,276 --> 00:26:23,315
I think it will inform other situations
that could come up in the future.

389
00:26:23,348 --> 00:26:27,619
But it's a long winded answer
to your question, but that's

390
00:26:27,652 --> 00:26:30,322
the challenges we've come across.

391
00:26:30,355 --> 00:26:36,861
That's a challenge that every choir
who works with individuals

392
00:26:36,895 --> 00:26:41,733
with disabilities or simply
has individuals with disabilities

393
00:26:41,733 --> 00:26:45,337
in their regular choir, they deal with.

394
00:26:45,370 --> 00:26:50,308
In the number of years I've worked with choirs
and I've sung with choirs, 

395
00:26:50,308 --> 00:26:56,548
I always had this conversation at some 
point with the people in charge 

396
00:26:56,548 --> 00:27:00,185
and saying, Okay, so here is what I need.

397
00:27:00,218 --> 00:27:04,589
But I know that a lot of people

398
00:27:04,589 --> 00:27:08,593
are sometimes shy, sometimes they don't

399
00:27:08,626 --> 00:27:14,165
think of talking with the people
who are making the decisions, and

400
00:27:14,165 --> 00:27:17,002
sometimes some bad decisions are made.

401
00:27:17,035 --> 00:27:18,803
But then we learn.

402
00:27:18,837 --> 00:27:20,071
Then we learn.

403
00:27:20,071 --> 00:27:21,973
We grow up together.

404
00:27:22,007 --> 00:27:24,342
We decide, Okay,
next time, we do it better.

405
00:27:24,376 --> 00:27:28,046
We know exactly what we did wrong.

406
00:27:28,079 --> 00:27:35,253
That's what I like in the idea of growing
together and discussing these topics.

407
00:27:35,286 --> 00:27:38,757
But the discussion needs to happen.

408
00:27:38,790 --> 00:27:41,760
There is not a lot of choirs,
you know that very well because you're

409
00:27:41,793 --> 00:27:45,397
leading one,
there is not a lot of choirs that are

410
00:27:45,430 --> 00:27:50,969
really focused on individuals
with disabilities and trying to

411
00:27:51,002 --> 00:27:54,939
talk with the venues and discuss
that topic and saying,

412
00:27:54,973 --> 00:27:57,609
How come? You are a new venue.

413
00:27:57,642 --> 00:27:59,177
You did all the work.

414
00:27:59,210 --> 00:28:02,313
How come you didn't make
the stage accessible?

415
00:28:02,347 --> 00:28:06,818
Oh, yeah, but for us,
accessibility is for the audience.

416
00:28:06,851 --> 00:28:12,357
Well, not only.

417
00:28:12,390 --> 00:28:14,392
Yeah, exactly.

418
00:28:14,559 --> 00:28:15,727
Or the opposite.

419
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:17,395
We had a venue that had
accessible accessible stage,

420
00:28:17,429 --> 00:28:19,664
but not accessible seating or audience.

421
00:28:19,698 --> 00:28:23,001
It's wild, anyway.

422
00:28:23,034 --> 00:28:28,640
This really goes to my next
question, which is, with the years

423
00:28:28,673 --> 00:28:33,645
you spent working with 
choristers with disabilities, 

424
00:28:33,645 --> 00:28:37,982
what does it mean for you to work in disability arts?

425
00:28:38,016 --> 00:28:40,885
Yeah, it means so much.

426
00:28:40,919 --> 00:28:43,054
It's a great question.

427
00:28:43,088 --> 00:28:47,092
I've been thinking about this
lately about what access points

428
00:28:47,092 --> 00:28:51,062
we provide for members in our groups.

429
00:28:51,096 --> 00:28:54,799
And like you said, I don't
see it as just a Braille Tones thing.

430
00:28:54,833 --> 00:29:00,472
With all of my choirs, I'm thinking,
are we being as accessible as possible?

431
00:29:00,472 --> 00:29:05,810
Are there bursaries like
in my choirs that have fees,

432
00:29:05,810 --> 00:29:07,312
which Braille Tones does not have fees.

433
00:29:07,345 --> 00:29:11,116
That's an important accessibility 
piece for us, too,

434
00:29:11,149 --> 00:29:16,788
because I know it's expensive to
have a disability and that kind of thing.

435
00:29:16,788 --> 00:29:22,827
It's It's important for us, and it's in
our mission statement not to charge fees.

436
00:29:22,827 --> 00:29:29,100
But in my choirs, like Tamariki or Orán,

437
00:29:29,100 --> 00:29:31,603
that there are bursaries available

438
00:29:31,636 --> 00:29:36,608
for folks, like that financial access
point, and then other access points

439
00:29:36,608 --> 00:29:39,978
of looking to see who has needs that

440
00:29:40,011 --> 00:29:45,750
we can meet, we can be proactive about.

441
00:29:46,084 --> 00:29:49,654
And those are, they can be learning
needs, they can be physical needs.

442
00:29:49,687 --> 00:29:51,623
There's so much.

443
00:29:51,623 --> 00:29:55,226
Honestly, working with Braille Tones
has just changed my whole perspective

444
00:29:55,260 --> 00:29:58,062
on working with a group of people,

445
00:29:58,096 --> 00:30:02,734
I guess, in the arts, because I feel like

446
00:30:02,767 --> 00:30:06,838
Braille Tones is an exaggerated verse
in a way, where there's a lot of needs.

447
00:30:06,871 --> 00:30:11,943
But in any group, you would have
individuals who have things that come up.

448
00:30:11,943 --> 00:30:16,648
I think somebody could break their leg
and need crutches, and then

449
00:30:16,681 --> 00:30:19,551
how are they going to get on stage,
we should be thinking about this

450
00:30:19,551 --> 00:30:21,986
ahead of time all the time.

451
00:30:21,986 --> 00:30:28,793
I just love having that perspective
opened to me because I just feel like

452
00:30:28,793 --> 00:30:37,001
you are seeing the people in your groups
as individuals and as important.

453
00:30:37,001 --> 00:30:39,637
Each person is important.

454
00:30:39,637 --> 00:30:41,172
I've seen this happen.

455
00:30:41,206 --> 00:30:47,245
I talked about my masters, and it's so
easy to see the choir as your instrument

456
00:30:47,245 --> 00:30:51,349
because you're focusing on how to make
this instrument sound the way

457
00:30:51,382 --> 00:30:53,251
you want it to sound and that kind of thing.

458
00:30:53,284 --> 00:30:55,220
But that's not what a choir is to me.

459
00:30:55,253 --> 00:31:00,592
It's a group of individuals that
are coming together to produce this art.

460
00:31:00,625 --> 00:31:05,129
And the more we can connect individually,
the better art we make,

461
00:31:05,129 --> 00:31:06,831
I think it's just a win-win.

462
00:31:06,831 --> 00:31:10,268
But sometimes - Without Braille
Tones, I might not have come

463
00:31:10,268 --> 00:31:14,505
to that realization as quickly.

464
00:31:14,505 --> 00:31:17,075
So I'm very grateful for that

465
00:31:17,075 --> 00:31:21,613
and grateful to have that 
accessibility lens on all my groups.

466
00:31:22,714 --> 00:31:24,215
Very good.

467
00:31:24,249 --> 00:31:27,285
Well, what are you working on right now?

468
00:31:27,285 --> 00:31:31,723
Is there any specific project
you are trying to accomplish

469
00:31:31,756 --> 00:31:33,358
or concert that is coming?

470
00:31:33,391 --> 00:31:37,228
It's the end of the season right
now, so I guess you finished your season?

471
00:31:37,228 --> 00:31:42,600
Yeah, we're on break now, but we're always
planning for the next season.

472
00:31:42,634 --> 00:31:44,903
So I think we'll do
another kids' menu concert.

473
00:31:44,903 --> 00:31:48,840
That was the one that happened
at the library last this year.

474
00:31:50,541 --> 00:31:55,079
That's the second time we had done
that format with Michelle & Friends,

475
00:31:55,113 --> 00:31:56,981
the children's entertainers.

476
00:31:57,015 --> 00:31:59,817
And so we'll do another one,
probably at the same venue

477
00:31:59,851 --> 00:32:01,085
because it worked out so well.

478
00:32:01,119 --> 00:32:05,390
And now that we are used to that venue,
I'd like to use it as much as possible

479
00:32:05,423 --> 00:32:07,558
because it's a wonderful one.

480
00:32:07,592 --> 00:32:12,497
Because if you have a kids concert
there, there's an amazing kids library.

481
00:32:12,530 --> 00:32:15,967
So families can go to the library,
come down and have the concert,

482
00:32:15,967 --> 00:32:17,902
go back to the library a bit.

483
00:32:17,935 --> 00:32:19,671
They can grab a snack at the cafe.

484
00:32:19,704 --> 00:32:25,610
It's just a nice Saturday afternoon
event, and it was so successful.

485
00:32:25,610 --> 00:32:29,514
We had the biggest audience we'd ever
had for a concert, so I'm really

486
00:32:29,547 --> 00:32:31,916
looking forward to doing that again.

487
00:32:32,250 --> 00:32:39,123
And just also, I think with
the idea of spreading the word about

488
00:32:40,391 --> 00:32:42,527
spreading the disability joy.

489
00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:50,535
Have you heard that expression before?
Just that kids can see a group of folks

490
00:32:50,568 --> 00:32:54,405
who are making music and having fun and

491
00:32:54,439 --> 00:32:58,710
realize that it's a joyful thing.

492
00:32:58,710 --> 00:33:01,512
How do I say it?

493
00:33:01,546 --> 00:33:04,716
But just anybody can do it and just
to have that exposure, 

494
00:33:04,716 --> 00:33:06,951
because I don't think I had that exposure as a kid.

495
00:33:06,951 --> 00:33:08,252
I think it's so important.

496
00:33:08,286 --> 00:33:10,588
I just feel like it makes a better world.

497
00:33:10,588 --> 00:33:16,594
So that is a real outreach thing
that I'm focused on, is that one concert.

498
00:33:16,627 --> 00:33:20,932
But then our other concert
will have a guest choir from Edmonton

499
00:33:20,932 --> 00:33:23,768
called A Joyful Noise.

500
00:33:23,801 --> 00:33:30,408
They're going to sing with us at our May
concert, and they are a really cool choir

501
00:33:30,441 --> 00:33:31,976
with a strong community as well.

502
00:33:32,009 --> 00:33:38,449
And their whole thing is they cater to
folks who can't carry a tune in a bucket.

503
00:33:38,483 --> 00:33:42,987
I don't know if you heard that expression
before, but people have come to choir

504
00:33:43,354 --> 00:33:46,991
with the feeling like, I don't
know if I can really sing.

505
00:33:46,991 --> 00:33:48,826
I've always been told I can't.

506
00:33:48,826 --> 00:33:51,662
Somebody told me when I was a kid
that I should just mount the words,

507
00:33:51,696 --> 00:33:55,600
that trauma that people bring
into a choir situation, 

508
00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:58,002
and then they had this joyful 
experience in the choir.

509
00:33:58,036 --> 00:34:00,972
It's a lovely community, and we've always
had good connections with them.

510
00:34:00,972 --> 00:34:06,544
So I'm glad to plan for that concert
together in the spring.

511
00:34:06,577 --> 00:34:10,248
And, yeah, those are our main big things
that are coming up.

512
00:34:10,281 --> 00:34:14,052
You also did a silent disco
a few days ago, right?

513
00:34:14,085 --> 00:34:14,952
Yeah.

514
00:34:14,952 --> 00:34:17,221
That was our very first fundraiser

515
00:34:17,255 --> 00:34:20,491
we had held, and it was so fun.

516
00:34:20,525 --> 00:34:23,528
And Silent Discos, I don't
think are huge in Canada yet,

517
00:34:23,528 --> 00:34:28,399
but I'm hoping that we can bring it
to Edmonton to be a regular event.

518
00:34:28,433 --> 00:34:29,133
We'll see.

519
00:34:29,167 --> 00:34:33,805
We had to rent the headphones
from the States but they're amazing.

520
00:34:33,805 --> 00:34:39,977
It's like these
sensory friendly dance event.

521
00:34:40,011 --> 00:34:41,679
So everybody gets a pair of headphones.

522
00:34:41,712 --> 00:34:45,349
And depending on what color it's blinking,
you have a different playlist.

523
00:34:45,349 --> 00:34:46,717
So there's three playlists.

524
00:34:46,751 --> 00:34:49,987
One was a kids one, one
was an upbeat adult one, 

525
00:34:49,987 --> 00:34:52,924
and one was more of a chill vibes one.

526
00:34:52,957 --> 00:34:57,261
But you could see across the room
if somebody had also had a red color,

527
00:34:57,261 --> 00:34:59,630
they would have the same playlist as you.

528
00:34:59,630 --> 00:35:03,868
So you could be doing YMCA actions.

529
00:35:03,868 --> 00:35:09,140
The funniest one was the chicken dance
where people are doing [hands movements].

530
00:35:09,173 --> 00:35:12,009
And in Braille Tones, we do
a described video of that.

531
00:35:12,043 --> 00:35:14,812
Peek, peek, peek, peek, flap, flap, flap, 

532
00:35:14,812 --> 00:35:17,515
wiggle, wiggle, wiggle, wiggle, clap, clap, clap, clap.

533
00:35:17,982 --> 00:35:21,619
That was just funny to put on there.

534
00:35:21,652 --> 00:35:24,388
But yeah, it was such a cool
event, the Silent Disco.

535
00:35:24,422 --> 00:35:28,526
So yeah, I would love to keep
doing stuff like that.

536
00:35:28,559 --> 00:35:32,163
That's a great way to just have fun

537
00:35:32,196 --> 00:35:35,633
together and do a little bit of activism

538
00:35:35,666 --> 00:35:38,202
because you then show a different side

539
00:35:38,236 --> 00:35:42,707
of music and also have a sensory-friendly

540
00:35:42,740 --> 00:35:47,178
concert, or fun or event.

541
00:35:47,211 --> 00:35:48,446
Yeah.

542
00:35:48,446 --> 00:35:50,515
People were up dancing if they wanted.

543
00:35:50,548 --> 00:35:52,583
There was kids, there's adults, everybody.

544
00:35:52,617 --> 00:35:54,418
But also there was a room on the side.

545
00:35:54,452 --> 00:35:57,522
It was a a quiet room where you could
have your headphones on or not.

546
00:35:57,555 --> 00:35:58,422
It's quiet.

547
00:35:58,456 --> 00:36:02,193
If you don't have the headphones on, it's
just totally silent, which is hilarious.

548
00:36:02,226 --> 00:36:05,029
But we had large print 

549
00:36:05,029 --> 00:36:08,699
crossword puzzle books, and 

550
00:36:08,699 --> 00:36:14,205
people could just sit and chat with their friend
or do a little game or puzzle.

551
00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:17,808
So there's options.
You didn't have to always be updancing.

552
00:36:17,808 --> 00:36:20,945
It was fun.
It was a cool event.

553
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:24,815
Well, I have a last question for you.

554
00:36:24,815 --> 00:36:25,616
Yeah.

555
00:36:25,616 --> 00:36:31,956
And it's about people who might have
inspired you or motivated you

556
00:36:31,989 --> 00:36:36,594
in your career, someone who made you

557
00:36:36,627 --> 00:36:39,530
accomplish what you really wanted to

558
00:36:39,530 --> 00:36:44,902
accomplish with your choral experiences
and conducting experiences.

559
00:36:44,936 --> 00:36:50,808
If you had one person to think of
or more, who would it be and why?

560
00:36:51,642 --> 00:36:56,080
Yeah.
I definitely have two people I'll mention.

561
00:36:56,314 --> 00:36:59,150
The first one, his name is Scott Jones.

562
00:36:59,183 --> 00:37:02,219
I don't know if you've ever
heard or met Scott Jones.

563
00:37:02,253 --> 00:37:06,090
So he and I grew up in Pictou,
Nova Scotia together.

564
00:37:06,123 --> 00:37:07,325
We're in choir together.

565
00:37:07,358 --> 00:37:09,527
We were big choir nerds.

566
00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:14,932
Had a group called the Bonnet Singers,
chamber choir, and all that kind of thing.

567
00:37:14,966 --> 00:37:20,471
Did our undergrad together
at Mount Allison University, Best Buds.

568
00:37:20,471 --> 00:37:27,478
And then I went to do my Master's 
at U of A, and he went to Manitoba to do his.

569
00:37:27,745 --> 00:37:30,181
And then he came home
for a year to Nova Scotia.

570
00:37:30,181 --> 00:37:35,253
And during that year, he was attacked,

571
00:37:35,286 --> 00:37:42,326
and he became a paraplegic.

572
00:37:42,426 --> 00:37:45,529
He's a wheelchair user now for life.

573
00:37:45,563 --> 00:37:50,201
It was a really tragic thing that happened
and feels like he was attacked for,

574
00:37:50,234 --> 00:37:53,170
and was attacked for his sexuality.

575
00:37:53,170 --> 00:37:58,576
He's a homosexual male.

576
00:37:58,609 --> 00:38:02,680
But it was just such a terrible tragedy

577
00:38:02,713 --> 00:38:08,019
But out of that came this very positive

578
00:38:08,052 --> 00:38:10,621
campaign he did called Don't Be Afraid.

579
00:38:10,655 --> 00:38:15,760
And so he went across Canada and did these
presentations and talked about

580
00:38:15,793 --> 00:38:19,897
Don't Be Afraid to be yourself and having
challenging conversations with folks who

581
00:38:19,930 --> 00:38:24,702
weren't necessarily on board
with his message yet,

582
00:38:24,702 --> 00:38:30,408
but really changed a lot of people's minds
and had those difficult conversations.

583
00:38:31,008 --> 00:38:36,847
And so he he's been an incredible 
person to have in my life.

584
00:38:36,881 --> 00:38:39,717
I'm so impressed by him.

585
00:38:39,750 --> 00:38:46,824
He hasn't had an easy journey
since 2013 when that happened.

586
00:38:46,857 --> 00:38:52,129
But he continues to work for

587
00:38:52,163 --> 00:38:57,301
disability inclusion now that he's part
of that community himself.

588
00:38:57,335 --> 00:39:01,405
And one of my aha moments, again,

589
00:39:01,405 --> 00:39:06,110
with disability and accessibility was

590
00:39:06,110 --> 00:39:10,881
when he was getting used to being
in a wheelchair or using a wheelchair and

591
00:39:10,915 --> 00:39:15,886
trying to go to a restaurant in Halifax,
Nova Scotia, where it's a lot of old buildings, 

592
00:39:15,886 --> 00:39:19,457
and they'd be like, Yeah,
it's accessible, but the bathroom wasn't,

593
00:39:19,490 --> 00:39:24,628
or there was a step to get in.

594
00:39:24,628 --> 00:39:30,701
And just like, I couldn't believe
all the barriers he had in a day.

595
00:39:30,701 --> 00:39:34,138
And I thought, this is not right.

596
00:39:34,171 --> 00:39:41,011
And so, yeah, I definitely think
of him often and try to keep in touch.

597
00:39:41,011 --> 00:39:45,616
He's now like a playwright,

598
00:39:45,649 --> 00:39:50,521
screenwriter, he does short films,

599
00:39:50,554 --> 00:39:56,127
and there's one on Prime Video called
Love Scott, which is about his journey.

600
00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:58,896
And he's a choral musician as well.

601
00:39:58,896 --> 00:40:03,300
So he's behind a lot of what I do, I think.

602
00:40:03,334 --> 00:40:07,805
I have a great love for that person.

603
00:40:07,838 --> 00:40:09,673
Yes, Scott Jones.

604
00:40:09,707 --> 00:40:15,880
And then the other person who
I love what she does, and I know well,

605
00:40:15,913 --> 00:40:22,686
is Alexis Hillyard, and she is our
ukulele instructor with the Braille Tones,

606
00:40:22,720 --> 00:40:24,221
and she has a limb difference.

607
00:40:24,255 --> 00:40:27,691
She was born with one arm and one stump.

608
00:40:27,725 --> 00:40:32,897
And so she has a YouTube channel
called Stump Kitchen.

609
00:40:32,930 --> 00:40:36,467
And her whole thing is awareness
around limb difference.

610
00:40:36,467 --> 00:40:42,606
And she does it in such a playful way
and in such a beautiful way.

611
00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:47,044
Her thing now is doing like cosplay
with her stump, so she'll dress it up

612
00:40:47,044 --> 00:40:50,481
or paint it in different characters.

613
00:40:50,514 --> 00:40:53,517
And she's been having
amazing success with that.

614
00:40:53,551 --> 00:40:55,252
It's really cool.

615
00:40:55,252 --> 00:41:00,424
And I just think, what a way
to create that awareness through

616
00:41:00,458 --> 00:41:05,095
such a beautiful joyful, inclusive way.

617
00:41:05,129 --> 00:41:06,831
So she has an incredible...

618
00:41:06,864 --> 00:41:10,734
And I just am so happy
that we get to work with her

619
00:41:10,734 --> 00:41:12,937
and through Braille Tones as well.

620
00:41:12,937 --> 00:41:15,873
Yeah, those are two people
that came to mind right away.

621
00:41:15,873 --> 00:41:20,311
I think I will post on the ArtsAbly's
website, on your resource page, 

622
00:41:20,311 --> 00:41:23,447
a link to her YouTube channel, too.

623
00:41:23,447 --> 00:41:25,850
Please do, yes.

624
00:41:26,150 --> 00:41:29,453
Well, thank you so much
for this conversation.

625
00:41:29,553 --> 00:41:34,291
I wish you a great summer
and a great new season when -

626
00:41:34,291 --> 00:41:36,961
you're starting back in September, right?

627
00:41:36,994 --> 00:41:37,862
Yeah.
Okay.

628
00:41:37,895 --> 00:41:41,031
With all your choirs
and all your projects.

629
00:41:41,532 --> 00:41:43,501
Thank you.
You, too.

630
00:41:43,534 --> 00:41:48,606
I'm pretty sure we will
see each other very soon again.

631
00:41:49,006 --> 00:41:51,108
Absolutely. Thanks, Diane.

632
00:41:51,108 --> 00:41:52,610
Okay. Have a great day.

633
00:41:52,610 --> 00:41:54,211
You too.

634
00:41:54,211 --> 00:41:55,412
Bye.

635
00:41:56,247 --> 00:42:01,385
[Closing theme music]