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[Opening theme music]

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Hello, and welcome to this episode
of ArtsAbly in Conversation.

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My name is Diane Kolin.

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This series presents artists, academics,
and project leaders who dedicate their

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time and energy to a better accessibility
for people with disabilities in the arts.

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You can find more of these conversations
on our website, artsably.com,

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which is spelled A-R-T-S-A-B-L-Y dot com.

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[Theme music]

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Today, ArtsAbly is in conversation
with Ally Hocking Howe, an Australian

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violinist, vocalist, composer,
and producer living in Texas.

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You can find the resources mentioned
by Ally Hocking Howe during this episode

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on ArtsAbly's website in the blog section.

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[Excerpt of "Orange (Unreleased). Live from UTOPiAfest 2024.
Ally plays pizzicati on her violin.]

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[Freckles all in a line]

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[Curly lashes hanging over mine, mm mmm]

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[Around and round and round and round]

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[we spin.]

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[Around and round and round and round]

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[we spin.]

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[Second guessing all 
the things that we both know.]

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[Like cicadas in the trees and 
the space you’re giving me.]

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[But I need words sometimes.]

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[Around and round and round and round]

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[we spin.]

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[Around and round and round and round]

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[we spin.]

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[Ally plays her violin.]

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[End of the excerpt.]

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Welcome to this new episode
of ArtsAbly in Conversation.

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Today, I am with Ally Hocking Howe,
who is an Australian violinist, vocalist,

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composer, and producer living in Texas.

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Welcome, Ali.
Thank you.

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Thanks for having me.

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Thank you for being here.

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Okay, so I always want to start
these episodes by asking a little bit

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about our guests, so your background,

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where you come from,

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where your musical story began.

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Yeah. A little summary about who I am
is I'm from Australia.

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I was born in the capital, Canberra,
and born and raised in Canberra.

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Then I recently moved to Texas almost
a year ago now, and I moved so that

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I could study a Masters of 
Jazz Studies at UNT 

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under Professor Scott Tixier, 
who's a jazz violinist.

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And I grew up playing violin.

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I originally wanted to learn the bagpipes,
but my moms said, Absolutely not.

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And so I picked the violin instead.

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And I wasn't a very good
student until I got older.

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I always had a very,
very hard time focusing.

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I never liked practicing.

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And in the lessons, when a teacher
was there to hold my hand through it, 

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I really liked it.

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But then I would get home and I just
would lose interest really quickly.

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But for some reason,
I never wanted to quit.

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And so I stuck with it.

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And then as I got older and developed
more studious skills, I started to

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really, really, really love it.

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So violin has been
the biggest musical component

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of my life, but I never really
fit the conventional classical box.

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So once I was 18, I started really
branching out and started learning jazz.

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And then from there, I started
learning more contemporary styles

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and learning how to produce.

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And now my original artist world
is centered around violin, vocals,

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and a lot of electronic production.

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And I try and integrate
them as much as possible.

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So, yeah, that's me.

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So when did you start music?

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When did it start in your career?

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I started violin when I was five,
but it really wasn't something

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that I ever considered more
of a hobby until I was 18.

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And that's when I started
my undergrad degree.

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And I was enrolled in a double degree
back in Australia in music

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and also medical science.

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And I wanted to be a doctor.

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I wanted to go into medicine,
but I wanted to keep music alive,

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hence why I did the double.

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But within the first semester,
it completely flipped.

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I realized, oh, music
is what I want to do.

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I didn't know how I was
going to make that a career.

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I didn't know what that looked like, 
but I just knew that 

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the medicine stuff I still did, 
and I completed that degree, 

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but it became more of the hobby, 
whereas music

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consumed every other hour of my day.

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Probably 18 is when that shift happened.

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It was focused on jazz, right, already?

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Or did you have a classical training, too?

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Yeah, I did classical up until I was 18.

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But one of my teachers, she's wonderful.

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Her name is Charlotte Winslade,
and she used to bribe me.

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And she would say, If you learn
this many classical pieces, you can learn

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this fun folk piece as a little reward.

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And so I did the classical stuff.

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And classical music is beautiful, but the
stuff that resonated with me that I liked

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playing was anything but the classical.

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So often it was folk.

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And then I did start jazz
because that was the only other pathway

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where I did my undergrad.

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But it was jazz violin, but I would still
integrate lots of other things.

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So I would always have one 
token folk piece in my recital.

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And yes, pretty eclectic.

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And did you produce yourself
a lot in Australia when you were there?

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Yeah.

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Originally, I didn't know how to produce.
I knew how to record and 

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towards the end of my degree,
I was doing at home remote session work

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for people over lockdown.

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And so I could record myself and edit my
violin parts and send off the audio, but

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I didn't know anything about production.

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And then in my final semester,
I was doing this course, and

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it's like a create your own music course.

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The course convener would let you
pick and choose what you wanted to do.

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And I decided I want
to produce a four track EP.

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And originally, I wanted to
work with producers and collaborate

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on violin electronic stuff.

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But the course convener said, Oh, just
watch YouTube videos and teach yourself.

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And at the time, I thought that was
so harsh because I thought, 

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If I could produce, I would be 
producing by now.

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But yeah, his advice changed
my career trajectory because I did.

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And I asked friends for help
and just through word of mouth and a lot

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of YouTube tutorials, I taught myself how
to produce, and I fell in love with it

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in a way that I never had with music before.

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I would sit down in the morning
at 10:00 AM and start working

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on production stuff, and then
I would blink and it would be midnight.

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So I really fell in love with it.

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How many - did you produce 
CDs, too, or recordings?

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Did you release?

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Yeah, I made my four-track EP

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in Ableton, and then I distributed it.

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And the reason behind that was I still
was on the fence about, 

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do I do music or medicine as a career?

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And I thought, well, regardless of
what I choose, if I have this EP that's

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released everywhere on every platform,
then it's like a little memento.

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But throughout the whole process of
learning how to do electronic production,

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I really fell in love with it.

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And that's what I decided to keep doing.

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But yeah, I never made physical copies.

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I thought about CDs or vinyl, even little
cassettes, that's become popular again.

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But they're all really expensive.

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Doing everything on a self-funded
budget, even just getting it

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all distributed, and that was enough.

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During the period where you were
hesitating between medicine and music,

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that might seem like a strange question
to ask, but did one domain

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impact your other domain?

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Where you - When you were thinking
of medicine, was there a lot

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of impact of music and vice versa
that was counterbalancing your choices?

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I think so, yeah.

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One thing I really noticed is throughout
the whole time studying medicine,

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music was always there.

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When I would get stressed
before exams, I would listen

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to songs, music to calm down.

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Or when I was studying for an exam,
I would break up my study, sitting with

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the textbooks, with practicing.

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I would do an hour
at the textbook and then 10 minutes

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as a reward with my violin.

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And it really just made me realize that
when I'm happy or when I'm sad

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or when I'm stressed, no matter what my
mental state is, I always seek out music.

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And even if it's listening
to other artists' music, it's still

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something that was so important to me.

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Whereas when I was doing all my music
stuff, I wasn't really thinking about

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my anatomy classes or anything.

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And so that became - That shifted
the balance and made me realize,

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Oh, I'm not ready to give up music.

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I really want to stick through it.

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You told me that the reason
why you moved to Texas was to

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study jazz with Scott Tixier.

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But it's a big decision when you
build up your career in Australia and you

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have all your background over there and

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your productions and your partnerships.

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What was the big decision?

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Was it obvious for you that
you wanted to go to the States to study?

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Not really.

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Leading up to it, I was
so stressed because it felt

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like such a pivotal decision.

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All my family and friends
were in Australia, and my network

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was really developing.

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I was regularly gigging every single week.

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I had a really solid community there,

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but I knew that I wanted

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to do something overseas.

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And growing up in Canberra,
Canberra is quite a small city,

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and there's a lot that's happening there.

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But I just knew that I
wanted to move somewhere.

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And unfortunately, there's nowhere else
in Australia that offers any jazz

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or contemporary or alternative
violin at the master's level.

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And I knew that a good reason
to move would be to do further study.

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And so I applied everywhere
in the world that I could find that had

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any alternative, like pop, contemporary
jazz, anything, like violin programs.

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And there was only six
places that I could find.

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And UNT was my top choice
because I knew Professor Tixier

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taught there, and I'd already had
some Skype lessons and stuff from him.

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But I wasn't expecting to get in.

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And so I applied thinking,
oh, they'll knock me back,

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I'll get feedback, and then I can
apply the following year and do better.

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But then I did get in, and then
I was offered a scholarship,

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and one that I couldn't defer.

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So I thought, I've got to go.

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And then I had about three
months to pack up everything

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and move my life over to the States.

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But yeah, it felt like a once
in a lifetime opportunity that

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at the time I wasn't quite ready for.

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But I think that was just
the stress of moving.

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And as soon as I got here,
I've just loved it.

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I've loved every minute of it.

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I know it's been one year you're there?
Yeah.

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So tell me about your life there.

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What were you - I know you went to
some festivals and things like that,

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and probably with your master,
you also have some opportunities.

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Tell me about your life there.

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It's just been wonderful.

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I'll start with the Jazz Strings
program at UNT.

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And it's a reasonably new program.

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I think it was created about six
or seven years ago, 

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and Professor Tixier has been 
running it that whole time.

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And back in Australia, I was the only
non classical strings player.

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But coming here, there's about 10
of us that are all doing the major.

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That's across undergrads
and master students.

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And so I got here and was surrounded by
these incredible players that - 

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we all love the jazz stuff, but everyone also 
has their unique side projects that they do.

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And it's just been wonderful to have peers
and to have an actual in-person

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jazz violin teacher, let alone one
that's so accomplished and good.

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And Professor Tixier,
he's also really encouraging

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of us each finding our own artistry.

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And so in most of my lessons,
I'll come and have these in-person

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lessons where we do all the jazz stuff.

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And then in the last five or 10
minutes, I'll show him one of my new

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electronic pop songs that I've made.

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And he's always really encouraging.

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So that's been a really nice balance.

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And so it's in Denton,
which is quite a small town.

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It's Texas, so it's
really hot in the summer.

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I don't have a car, so I just walk with
a big shirt on so I don't get sunburn.

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But a really lovely community is here.

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And shortly after moving, I was just

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googling any festival 

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or emerging artist festival 
in the Texas area.

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And I think I sent out about 50 or 60
emails, and I heard back from one from...

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00:17:18,370 --> 00:17:23,675
His name is Travis, and he organizes
UTOPiAfest and Eclipse Utopia, which was

236
00:17:23,675 --> 00:17:28,447
the special festival for the big
Texas Eclipse that happened this year.

237
00:17:28,447 --> 00:17:31,850
And he got back to me and said,
We've completely filled the lineup

238
00:17:31,850 --> 00:17:34,053
already, but we'll squeeze you in.

239
00:17:34,053 --> 00:17:35,888
Would you be happy with a 1:00 AM set?

240
00:17:35,921 --> 00:17:37,723
And I said, Yes, absolutely.

241
00:17:37,756 --> 00:17:40,526
And so I got together
a band with my friends.

242
00:17:40,526 --> 00:17:44,196
A lot of my set is electronic,
and I perform with my laptop.

243
00:17:44,229 --> 00:17:47,199
But how I've created it,
I can mute certain instruments.

244
00:17:47,232 --> 00:17:49,134
So for this gig, I wanted to play with

245
00:17:49,134 --> 00:17:51,670
my friend who's a drummer and
my other friend who's a bassist.

246
00:17:51,703 --> 00:17:55,374
So I just muted those tracks
and got them in the band, 

247
00:17:55,374 --> 00:17:58,110
and we road tripped all the way to this festival.

248
00:17:58,143 --> 00:18:02,347
It was about a six-hour road trip,
fitting all of our gear

249
00:18:02,381 --> 00:18:04,216
in this tiny, tiny little car.

250
00:18:04,249 --> 00:18:07,419
And when we arrived,
another act had pulled out.

251
00:18:07,453 --> 00:18:12,858
So Travis said, Do you guys want to also
do a 1:00 PM slot on the main stage?

252
00:18:12,858 --> 00:18:14,793
And we were like, Yes, absolutely.

253
00:18:14,827 --> 00:18:17,329
And so we got to play two
gigs at this festival.

254
00:18:17,362 --> 00:18:21,166
We camped there for the
whole four or five days.

255
00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:26,371
And we met so many amazing musicians
all from around the Austin area.

256
00:18:26,772 --> 00:18:28,941
Yeah, so I got really lucky with that one.

257
00:18:28,974 --> 00:18:31,477
And yeah, just a lovely community again.

258
00:18:31,510 --> 00:18:35,981
And in doing that gig, I for
the first time googled the population

259
00:18:36,014 --> 00:18:38,417
of Texas compared to Australia.

260
00:18:38,417 --> 00:18:43,155
And there are slightly more people that
live in Texas than in all of Australia.

261
00:18:43,188 --> 00:18:47,259
And it just clicked like, Oh, that's why
the industry is so much bigger here

262
00:18:47,292 --> 00:18:50,696
because it's just so populated.

263
00:18:50,729 --> 00:18:57,302
The industry is thriving compared to
certain sections of the Australian one.

264
00:18:58,437 --> 00:19:01,173
I guess with these opportunities,

265
00:19:01,206 --> 00:19:03,976
it also creates links for the future.

266
00:19:04,009 --> 00:19:08,714
These are people you can contact back and
say, It was such a great time last year.

267
00:19:08,747 --> 00:19:10,015
Let's do it again.

268
00:19:10,015 --> 00:19:11,250
Yeah.

269
00:19:11,250 --> 00:19:14,319
And that's something I've been
really pleasantly surprised with

270
00:19:14,353 --> 00:19:20,192
is leading up to the move from Australia,
I knew that the standard of musicianship,

271
00:19:20,225 --> 00:19:24,630
especially at UNT in the jazz program, I
knew that it was going to be really high.

272
00:19:24,663 --> 00:19:27,666
But I didn't expect
everyone to be so kind.

273
00:19:27,699 --> 00:19:33,238
And when I got here, they're just the
most incredible players, but they're all

274
00:19:33,272 --> 00:19:40,312
really helpful and really encouraging
and just really kind to each other.

275
00:19:40,345 --> 00:19:43,715
I've really enjoyed that aspect of it.

276
00:19:44,416 --> 00:19:48,620
Is there a specific project
that you're working on right now to

277
00:19:48,654 --> 00:19:52,791
prepare future gigs or future releases?

278
00:19:52,824 --> 00:19:54,993
Yeah, absolutely.

279
00:19:54,993 --> 00:19:58,263
My biggest project has probably
been my album, which is currently

280
00:19:58,297 --> 00:19:59,965
getting mixed and mastered.

281
00:19:59,965 --> 00:20:03,135
I call it an album because it's
a collection of eight new songs.

282
00:20:03,135 --> 00:20:07,706
But when I release it, I'll probably
release one single after the other.

283
00:20:07,739 --> 00:20:10,075
I've been working
on that for about a year now.

284
00:20:10,108 --> 00:20:15,414
And since moving, I added more songs
and I wrote more of them.

285
00:20:15,414 --> 00:20:17,950
I've stuck with my wonderful
mixing engineer.

286
00:20:17,983 --> 00:20:20,652
His name is Louis Montgomery,
back in Australia.

287
00:20:20,652 --> 00:20:23,388
And so this summer, actually,
I finally finished up all of the songs

288
00:20:23,422 --> 00:20:25,223
and sent them all across to him.

289
00:20:25,257 --> 00:20:31,363
I'm really excited about it because my EP
was instrumental, so only violin

290
00:20:31,396 --> 00:20:34,600
and then electronic components.

291
00:20:34,633 --> 00:20:38,470
But every song on this new
album has my vocals on it.

292
00:20:38,503 --> 00:20:42,107
And singing for me has been one
of the scariest musical endeavors

293
00:20:42,140 --> 00:20:43,909
I've ever done.

294
00:20:43,942 --> 00:20:45,877
But yeah, it certainly pushed me.

295
00:20:45,877 --> 00:20:52,050
But I'm really excited to get it out there
and start doing a lot more vocal stuff.

296
00:20:52,050 --> 00:20:59,491
Plus you're creating - I had the chance to
listen to one of the songs of this future album, 

297
00:20:59,491 --> 00:21:05,697
the one that was recorded that
you performed at this Utopia festival.

298
00:21:05,697 --> 00:21:11,603
I really love the way you were 
creating some layers of vocals

299
00:21:11,603 --> 00:21:16,241
and singing on yourself 
and replying to yourself.

300
00:21:16,241 --> 00:21:20,846
Plus, yeah, it was - 
for three musicians

301
00:21:20,879 --> 00:21:23,815
on stage, it created such an impression

302
00:21:23,849 --> 00:21:27,219
of being a full mini band.

303
00:21:27,252 --> 00:21:29,354
Thank you.

304
00:21:29,388 --> 00:21:30,756
Very nice.

305
00:21:30,789 --> 00:21:36,928
I think one of the first non classical
things I did was when I was 17.

306
00:21:36,928 --> 00:21:42,134
I have two mums, and one of my mums,
Taryn, she bought me a loop station,

307
00:21:42,134 --> 00:21:44,503
like the ones that Ed Sheeran uses.

308
00:21:44,536 --> 00:21:48,173
I remember sitting in my room
and thinking, does this even

309
00:21:48,206 --> 00:21:50,909
work with a violin?
How do I do this?

310
00:21:50,942 --> 00:21:54,579
I started again watching YouTube
tutorials, and I learned how to

311
00:21:54,613 --> 00:21:56,948
loop my violin and create layers.

312
00:21:56,982 --> 00:22:01,553
Because unlike a piano or a guitar,
violins really can only play one

313
00:22:01,586 --> 00:22:04,356
to two melody lines at a time.

314
00:22:04,389 --> 00:22:09,061
So learning how to loop and add layers
of my violin, it was just a really nice,

315
00:22:09,094 --> 00:22:10,529
like, oh, I'm surrounded by harmony.

316
00:22:10,662 --> 00:22:15,267
And so I've tried to keep that element
in all of my original songs.

317
00:22:15,300 --> 00:22:18,136
So there's like, some of them
have over 60 violin parts all stacked

318
00:22:18,170 --> 00:22:22,841
on each other, but also, yeah, lots
of vocal harmonies and vocal looping.

319
00:22:22,874 --> 00:22:24,209
So thank you.

320
00:22:24,242 --> 00:22:26,678
We know each other
through RAMPD.

321
00:22:26,712 --> 00:22:33,452
When I was hearing you talking about
these looping pedal, I was also thinking

322
00:22:33,452 --> 00:22:37,889
of Gaelynn Lea, because if you listen

323
00:22:37,923 --> 00:22:42,127
to what she's doing with her violin,

324
00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:44,629
she's a violinist and a singer, too.

325
00:22:44,663 --> 00:22:48,333
She is using the loop pedal a lot

326
00:22:48,333 --> 00:22:51,937
and creating the atmosphere that goes

327
00:22:51,970 --> 00:22:55,607
very well with her own style, which is

328
00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:59,611
a lot of different style, but folk and some

329
00:22:59,611 --> 00:23:03,281
Celtic things that she's putting inside.

330
00:23:03,315 --> 00:23:08,787
That's something, if you want inspiration
on something completely different from

331
00:23:08,820 --> 00:23:11,890
your style, it's a very good inspiration.

332
00:23:11,923 --> 00:23:13,759
I really like what she's doing.

333
00:23:13,759 --> 00:23:16,328
She's incredible. 

334
00:23:16,328 --> 00:23:20,499
I remember the classical teacher
that I had throughout my teenage years.

335
00:23:20,532 --> 00:23:24,369
This is the one that would give me
folk songs as treats every now and then.

336
00:23:24,403 --> 00:23:29,174
She, one day in a lesson, showed me
her playing, and I was blown away.

337
00:23:29,174 --> 00:23:33,879
It really has that folk element,
but also the loop element.

338
00:23:33,912 --> 00:23:35,580
Yeah, it's beautiful.

339
00:23:35,781 --> 00:23:37,215
Yes, it is.

340
00:23:37,649 --> 00:23:44,656
Well, I have a question for you that I
really love because every time I'm asking

341
00:23:44,689 --> 00:23:50,128
this question, there is a second of,
Oh, yeah, that's an interesting question.

342
00:23:50,328 --> 00:23:55,233
I like to call it our work in
accessibility arts.

343
00:23:55,233 --> 00:23:57,736
Really working in an environment

344
00:23:57,769 --> 00:24:03,608
where we promote accessibility and
we promote equality in our performances.

345
00:24:03,642 --> 00:24:09,381
What is it for you to work
in this accessibility arts environment?

346
00:24:09,815 --> 00:24:15,187
I think it's so many things.

347
00:24:15,220 --> 00:24:19,224
One of the first things that comes to mind is, 

348
00:24:19,224 --> 00:24:23,195
I think on ways to make pedagogy,

349
00:24:23,195 --> 00:24:26,531
whether it's classical or jazz,
more accessible, I feel like

350
00:24:26,565 --> 00:24:28,467
there's so much more room for that.

351
00:24:28,500 --> 00:24:32,737
And all of my formative years
were playing classical music.

352
00:24:32,737 --> 00:24:37,976
And I was lucky in that I had teachers
who did accommodate some of that,

353
00:24:38,009 --> 00:24:39,711
my accessibility needs.

354
00:24:39,744 --> 00:24:43,982
But there was still a really strong
pedagogy of this is what you do.

355
00:24:44,015 --> 00:24:45,150
This is how we teach.

356
00:24:45,183 --> 00:24:48,520
This is what a student should do
and what's right and wrong.

357
00:24:48,553 --> 00:24:52,090
And I think there are certain things
that for me, I really struggled with.

358
00:24:52,123 --> 00:24:55,560
And for many years, I just thought,
I'm just not a violinist.

359
00:24:55,594 --> 00:24:57,395
This is not what I meant to do.

360
00:24:57,429 --> 00:25:01,666
Because one of the most basic ones,
now when I practice, 

361
00:25:01,666 --> 00:25:04,002
the violin is a really loud instrument.

362
00:25:04,035 --> 00:25:09,641
And aside from the fact that it's good to wear 
hearing protection, like earplugs for ear health,

363
00:25:09,641 --> 00:25:11,643
when you have sensory issues,

364
00:25:11,676 --> 00:25:15,513
particularly surrounding sound,
it's not an intuitive thing 

365
00:25:15,513 --> 00:25:17,782
to pick up a violin, hold it 
this close to your ear,

366
00:25:17,782 --> 00:25:20,318
and then play really
loud high pitch stuff.

367
00:25:20,352 --> 00:25:24,189
And so now when I practice, particularly 
if I'm learning something new, 

368
00:25:24,189 --> 00:25:28,693
I either wear two headphones,
not fully noise canceling, but ones

369
00:25:28,727 --> 00:25:32,564
that dampen the sound, or I
wear a single ear plug in my left ear.

370
00:25:32,597 --> 00:25:37,936
I can practice my violin for hours 
without getting this mental fatigue, 

371
00:25:37,936 --> 00:25:44,109
which I'm now learning is probably because 
the noise is just really draining my focus.

372
00:25:44,142 --> 00:25:50,448
So I think little things like that,
teachers suggesting really simple,

373
00:25:50,482 --> 00:25:54,953
affordable ways that their students
can make instruments seem more appealing.

374
00:25:54,986 --> 00:25:58,456
Or another one, I was taught
when I was little that I had

375
00:25:58,456 --> 00:26:02,627
to stand really still to play the violin,
and that was to prep me for orchestra

376
00:26:02,661 --> 00:26:06,565
and orchestral settings where
you can't just get up and walk around.

377
00:26:06,598 --> 00:26:10,936
But when I was practicing,
I was also told to stand really still.

378
00:26:10,936 --> 00:26:15,140
And for so many little kids,
even kids that aren't neurodivergent,

379
00:26:15,140 --> 00:26:16,741
they're going to struggle with that.

380
00:26:16,775 --> 00:26:21,046
And so I think creating ways
of normalizing that would really help,

381
00:26:21,079 --> 00:26:23,448
or other things like playing scales.

382
00:26:23,481 --> 00:26:27,085
So many kids, especially kids
with neurodiversities,

383
00:26:27,118 --> 00:26:29,387
they're going to struggle to focus.

384
00:26:29,421 --> 00:26:32,357
So telling them, Oh, well,
try walking in a circle while you

385
00:26:32,357 --> 00:26:37,028
practice your scales, or walk outside
in the garden while you're...

386
00:26:37,062 --> 00:26:41,066
Or giving them other physical
stemming activities to do.

387
00:26:41,099 --> 00:26:46,004
I think stuff like that would be a bit of
a game changer for a lot of little kids.

388
00:26:46,438 --> 00:26:51,209
In terms of the gig environment and
the performance environment,

389
00:26:51,209 --> 00:26:54,579
 I love going to concerts, 

390
00:26:54,579 --> 00:27:00,952
but so often I find them so
draining, so incredibly draining.

391
00:27:00,986 --> 00:27:04,823
And I get home and I crash
and I just feel burnt out.

392
00:27:04,856 --> 00:27:07,459
And this is me attending as a guest.

393
00:27:07,492 --> 00:27:10,962
And I have this little dream 
that at some point,

394
00:27:10,996 --> 00:27:14,265
maybe when I'm less of an emerging artist
and more of an established one,

395
00:27:14,299 --> 00:27:20,705
I want to perform gigs where
at the front of the stage,

396
00:27:20,739 --> 00:27:23,675
there's just an area with a bunch
of pillows and people can

397
00:27:23,708 --> 00:27:25,477
sit on the floor or lay down.

398
00:27:25,510 --> 00:27:29,247
I think that would be
the best thing in the world.

399
00:27:29,381 --> 00:27:33,318
But having so many gigs
where the audience members

400
00:27:33,318 --> 00:27:38,056
have to stand in a really compact space
and then right in front of the monitors,

401
00:27:38,056 --> 00:27:41,459
so it's so loud, that's so exhausting.

402
00:27:41,493 --> 00:27:42,494
And it's...

403
00:27:42,494 --> 00:27:44,529
Gigs aren't often wheelchair accessible.

404
00:27:44,562 --> 00:27:48,566
And yeah, I just think having
a dedicated area where people can just

405
00:27:48,566 --> 00:27:51,202
sit or stand however they like,
I think that would be wonderful.

406
00:27:51,236 --> 00:27:55,673
And again, pretty simple,
but I've never seen it before.

407
00:27:55,740 --> 00:27:58,209
Where I live, I live in Toronto in Canada,

408
00:27:58,243 --> 00:28:04,149
and there is an organization
called Xenia Concerts.

409
00:28:04,182 --> 00:28:07,986
Xenia, they are specialized
in relaxed performances.

410
00:28:08,019 --> 00:28:12,123
They train musicians to be familiar

411
00:28:12,123 --> 00:28:15,960
with relaxed performances and to include

412
00:28:15,994 --> 00:28:22,567
the audience in everything they're doing.

413
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:26,638
It could be, for example, 
all what you described, the cushions,

414
00:28:26,638 --> 00:28:32,243
and there is a quiet room for spinning or
for playing puzzles or whatever,

415
00:28:32,277 --> 00:28:35,880
have a moment out of the room,

416
00:28:35,914 --> 00:28:40,852
or they bring dogs, or they...

417
00:28:40,852 --> 00:28:46,391
They also ask for feedback after each concert
so that if there was one issue

418
00:28:46,391 --> 00:28:48,993
for the next one, it's going to be fixed.

419
00:28:48,993 --> 00:28:54,299
Also for the performers,
each performer gets a training 

420
00:28:54,299 --> 00:28:58,036
to explain that it's important, for example,

421
00:28:58,036 --> 00:29:01,873
to encourage the audience 

422
00:29:01,873 --> 00:29:06,911
to just move around and 
stand and walk and draw 

423
00:29:06,911 --> 00:29:10,482
and do whatever they want, but also,

424
00:29:10,482 --> 00:29:15,053
every two or three pieces, there is a stretch break.

425
00:29:15,053 --> 00:29:18,990
We're doing a story or
a stretch exercise or something.

426
00:29:19,023 --> 00:29:23,261
It's totally different from
a classical standard or classical

427
00:29:23,294 --> 00:29:26,664
or a standard, standardized.

428
00:29:26,698 --> 00:29:30,301
It exists and it comes more and more.

429
00:29:30,335 --> 00:29:36,674
I heard that a lot of big orchestras,
they partner with these organizations

430
00:29:36,708 --> 00:29:42,046
to make sure that at least maybe 
once in a while, they do 

431
00:29:42,046 --> 00:29:47,285
a concert that is accessibility friendly

432
00:29:47,285 --> 00:29:52,157
with everything that is behind that word.

433
00:29:52,190 --> 00:29:54,459
So, yeah, it comes, it comes.

434
00:29:54,459 --> 00:29:56,461
I would love to go to one of those.

435
00:29:56,461 --> 00:29:58,029
That sounds wonderful.

436
00:29:58,062 --> 00:30:01,399
I wanted to come briefly
back to your access needs.

437
00:30:01,432 --> 00:30:06,070
Did you work with your teachers when
you were studying to make sure that these

438
00:30:06,070 --> 00:30:12,677
access needs were met, or did you have to
figure out by yourself and try to impose

439
00:30:12,677 --> 00:30:18,516
or come back to the conversation saying,
I found this that would work for me?

440
00:30:18,550 --> 00:30:23,988
I think I largely worked it out by myself.

441
00:30:24,022 --> 00:30:28,826
Because also in a lesson,
you only spend 30 minutes to an hour

442
00:30:28,860 --> 00:30:30,695
with a teacher each week.

443
00:30:30,695 --> 00:30:35,333
And so often I could get through that.

444
00:30:35,333 --> 00:30:40,171
It was more when I had to practice
and there was this expectation of,

445
00:30:40,171 --> 00:30:43,741
okay, now I need to go home
and practice four to five hours a day.

446
00:30:43,775 --> 00:30:45,643
That's when I really struggled.

447
00:30:45,677 --> 00:30:51,449
And I think it took me a long time to
realize that those two things were linked

448
00:30:51,482 --> 00:30:54,786
and that I was struggling to...

449
00:30:54,819 --> 00:30:57,855
Because I would try and go home and stand
exactly how I would in a lesson in front

450
00:30:57,889 --> 00:31:00,191
of my violin stand and just focus.

451
00:31:00,225 --> 00:31:03,761
And it took me a long time
to realize that that expectation

452
00:31:03,795 --> 00:31:09,167
wasn't practical for me and probably
isn't practical for a lot of people.

453
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:13,471
It's been kind of good to 
work it out on my own, but 

454
00:31:13,471 --> 00:31:16,941
I think it would have been nice

455
00:31:16,975 --> 00:31:20,044
to have more chats along the way
with teachers or more little ideas.

456
00:31:20,078 --> 00:31:23,314
And sometimes they were great
and they would throw out ideas.

457
00:31:23,348 --> 00:31:27,318
One teacher, he suggested that
for physical posture health,

458
00:31:27,352 --> 00:31:31,856
he recommended sometimes sitting,
like sit for 30 minutes, lean on a stool,

459
00:31:31,890 --> 00:31:36,761
like a piano for 30 minutes, stand for 30
minutes, and keep rotating that.

460
00:31:36,794 --> 00:31:41,332
But it was never, I guess,
the target of my accessibility needs.

461
00:31:41,332 --> 00:31:44,068
It was more just brainstorming stuff.

462
00:31:46,537 --> 00:31:50,942
Well, thank you for all the story.

463
00:31:51,309 --> 00:31:56,714
I have a last question,
a last big question.

464
00:31:56,748 --> 00:31:59,350
I still have a tiny one for the end.

465
00:31:59,384 --> 00:32:03,388
But this big question is about

466
00:32:04,155 --> 00:32:08,526
inspirations or connections or people

467
00:32:08,559 --> 00:32:14,265
with whom you have worked and who really
got you to the place where you are today.

468
00:32:14,299 --> 00:32:20,605
If you had a few people to think of
and to name, who would it be and why?

469
00:32:20,638 --> 00:32:25,310
Are we talking famous people?

470
00:32:25,343 --> 00:32:27,145
That's really up to you.

471
00:32:27,178 --> 00:32:29,714
If it's someone who really...

472
00:32:29,747 --> 00:32:34,218
Like a teacher who inspired you,
or if it's someone who just 

473
00:32:34,218 --> 00:32:39,791
you listened to a lot when you were a kid 
or something like that, it doesn't matter.

474
00:32:39,824 --> 00:32:45,129
It's really who inspired you
in your musical career?

475
00:32:45,163 --> 00:32:48,900
The first one that springs to mind is, 

476
00:32:48,900 --> 00:32:53,971
do you know Bon Iver, 
led by Justin Vernon?

477
00:32:54,005 --> 00:32:58,109
He's an a huge musical inspiration
to me and an artist that

478
00:32:58,142 --> 00:32:59,844
I've loved for many years.

479
00:32:59,877 --> 00:33:02,847
And I saw him performing.

480
00:33:03,348 --> 00:33:06,551
I was lucky enough to attend one
of his gigs when he came to Australia.

481
00:33:06,584 --> 00:33:09,520
It was back,
it was about two years ago now.

482
00:33:09,554 --> 00:33:14,459
And he is known for performing with
over-the-ear headphones.

483
00:33:14,492 --> 00:33:17,128
And a lot of artists will have
in-ear monitors, but he just

484
00:33:17,161 --> 00:33:19,797
uses big over-the-ear headphones.

485
00:33:19,831 --> 00:33:26,471
I don't know why, but it made me realize,
oh, There must be some reason why

486
00:33:26,471 --> 00:33:29,807
he chooses that over the more discrete ones.

487
00:33:29,841 --> 00:33:33,544
But people don't see him perform
and go, Oh, that's unconventional,

488
00:33:33,578 --> 00:33:35,880
that's weird, why is he wearing 
big over-the-ear headphones?

489
00:33:35,913 --> 00:33:38,950
They just go, Wow, it's Bon Iver.
It's amazing.

490
00:33:38,950 --> 00:33:44,789
And that gave me the idea of, 
Oh, if I'm feeling too over stimulated 

491
00:33:44,789 --> 00:33:47,892
by the sound of my violin, I'll just wear 
headphones, and it just makes everything

492
00:33:47,925 --> 00:33:51,429
a little bit dull in a good way.

493
00:33:51,462 --> 00:33:55,066
So he's definitely been an inspiration,
and all of his music growing up

494
00:33:55,166 --> 00:34:00,705
I would obsess over it with all of
the harmonies and this indie folk vibe.

495
00:34:01,139 --> 00:34:03,641
So, yeah, him for sure.

496
00:34:03,674 --> 00:34:08,913
Some other artists, I saw online once

497
00:34:08,913 --> 00:34:13,251
that Cher that she has ADHD and dyslexia.

498
00:34:13,251 --> 00:34:16,154
And again, I grew up listening to Cher.
I've got two moms.

499
00:34:16,187 --> 00:34:18,322
They would blast Cher all the time.

500
00:34:18,356 --> 00:34:21,092
And so that was quite
nice going, Oh, nice.

501
00:34:21,125 --> 00:34:22,794
She's similar to me.

502
00:34:23,327 --> 00:34:28,599
And I also have Ehlers–Danlos syndrome,
which is a connective tissue disorder

503
00:34:28,599 --> 00:34:31,035
where everything's
a little bit too bendy.

504
00:34:31,068 --> 00:34:33,471
And I've had many
surgeries because of that.

505
00:34:33,504 --> 00:34:37,875
And again, playing the violin,
it's not an ergonomic instrument.

506
00:34:37,909 --> 00:34:41,345
Being in this position
for hours a day, it's bad.

507
00:34:41,379 --> 00:34:42,880
It messes up your back.

508
00:34:42,914 --> 00:34:47,485
But then when you combine having
all of my little tendons and ligaments

509
00:34:47,518 --> 00:34:52,457
are slightly too hypermobile, it explains
why I get a lot of pain when I play.

510
00:34:52,490 --> 00:34:56,427
And I've always had to do physiotherapy
and stuff to accommodate that.

511
00:34:56,427 --> 00:34:59,497
But I recently found out that Billie Eilish 

512
00:34:59,497 --> 00:35:02,366
is rumored to have 
Ehlers–Danlos syndrome.

513
00:35:02,366 --> 00:35:06,003
And I saw her back in, 
I think, 2019 or 2020, 

514
00:35:06,003 --> 00:35:09,340
and she had her legs 
and knees all taped up 

515
00:35:09,340 --> 00:35:11,709
because, again, she was having 
lots of joint issues.

516
00:35:11,742 --> 00:35:16,047
And so it's always nice to me
when I see artists that -

517
00:35:16,047 --> 00:35:19,183
she wasn't hiding the tape on her knees
in the same way that Bon Iver 

518
00:35:19,183 --> 00:35:21,686
wasn't hiding his massive headphones.

519
00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:24,689
I always like seeing that
because it breaks the mold

520
00:35:24,722 --> 00:35:27,291
in the the tiniest, most subtle way.

521
00:35:27,291 --> 00:35:31,229
But I'm sure there are so many people
out there that go, Oh, they look like me.

522
00:35:31,262 --> 00:35:35,833
Those are the little accessibility things
that I use on my day-to-day life.

523
00:35:36,934 --> 00:35:37,668
That's good.

524
00:35:37,702 --> 00:35:41,105
It's good to hear that because one of the
conversations we have -

525
00:35:41,105 --> 00:35:46,077
so I'm slightly older than you, 
and disabled artists

526
00:35:46,077 --> 00:35:50,148
from  the generation 
just before you, we often have 

527
00:35:50,181 --> 00:35:56,454
this conversation that we didn't
have any role model growing growing up.

528
00:35:56,454 --> 00:36:03,027
And so, for example, Lachi, 
who is also the co founder

529
00:36:03,060 --> 00:36:07,365
of RAMPD, she was saying, 
I want to be the role model

530
00:36:07,365 --> 00:36:12,737
for the younger generation

531
00:36:12,737 --> 00:36:18,109
of artists with visual issues and 

532
00:36:18,109 --> 00:36:23,080
Black women who are
proud of who they are, 

533
00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:25,449
and it doesn't matter whatever 

534
00:36:25,449 --> 00:36:27,451
your access needs or whatever are, 

535
00:36:27,451 --> 00:36:30,988
everything should be met
and we should be proud of all that.

536
00:36:31,289 --> 00:36:37,395
And I really love what you're saying that

537
00:36:37,428 --> 00:36:41,732
today, in our times, there are 
more and more people 

538
00:36:41,732 --> 00:36:48,573
who don't fear to show their 
vulnerabilities in a way.

539
00:36:48,573 --> 00:36:49,807
I love that.

540
00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:54,779
It makes me really happy
and hopeful for the next years.

541
00:36:54,812 --> 00:36:57,648
Yeah, me too.

542
00:36:57,682 --> 00:37:02,253
Okay, here goes my tiny
little question at the end.

543
00:37:02,553 --> 00:37:06,891
If anyone on this podcast is listening

544
00:37:06,924 --> 00:37:09,727
and wondering, Oh, I would really love to

545
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:14,699
do like Ally and have the courage to

546
00:37:14,765 --> 00:37:18,369
move to another country 
or become a producer 

547
00:37:18,369 --> 00:37:20,271
or use a looping pedal.

548
00:37:20,304 --> 00:37:25,142
Do you have any advice for
these maybe young musicians

549
00:37:25,176 --> 00:37:28,012
who are listening to us right now?

550
00:37:28,012 --> 00:37:32,016
My biggest bit of advice would just
be to stay really curious.

551
00:37:32,016 --> 00:37:36,954
And especially in today's digital age,
don't be afraid to reach out to people

552
00:37:36,954 --> 00:37:38,823
and just ask for help.

553
00:37:38,856 --> 00:37:44,195
With my move to America, I was 
receiving advice from people that 

554
00:37:44,195 --> 00:37:46,764
I had really looked up to 
when I was younger.

555
00:37:46,797 --> 00:37:50,167
And it would just be to ask.

556
00:37:50,201 --> 00:37:54,905
Watch YouTube videos, watch tutorials, try
and teach yourself as much as possible.

557
00:37:54,939 --> 00:37:58,142
But also reach out to the artists
that you like, because 

558
00:37:58,142 --> 00:38:00,578
sometimes they reply to you 
and they'll answer questions

559
00:38:00,578 --> 00:38:02,747
and they'll go, Oh, here's how I do it.

560
00:38:02,780 --> 00:38:06,017
And that's one of the most 
motivational things ever, 

561
00:38:06,017 --> 00:38:09,286
to hear back from someone 
that you look up to.

562
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:12,757
And in my experience,
more often than not, these older,

563
00:38:12,790 --> 00:38:18,496
more established musicians are really
down to help out younger artists.

564
00:38:18,663 --> 00:38:22,033
So, yeah, stay curious
and ask people lots of questions.

565
00:38:22,767 --> 00:38:24,702
Very good advice.

566
00:38:25,269 --> 00:38:30,107
Okay, so thank you so much for this
time together.

567
00:38:30,141 --> 00:38:34,845
I wish you all the best
with all your projects and success in

568
00:38:34,879 --> 00:38:38,649
your studies and your future recording.

569
00:38:38,683 --> 00:38:39,950
Thank you so much.

570
00:38:39,950 --> 00:38:41,485
Lovely to meet you.

571
00:38:41,519 --> 00:38:43,521
Lovely to meet you, too.
Have a good day.

572
00:38:43,554 --> 00:38:44,388
Thank you.
You, too.

573
00:38:44,388 --> 00:38:45,423
Bye.

574
00:38:46,657 --> 00:38:51,796
[Closing theme music]