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[Opening theme music]

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Hello, and welcome to this episode
of ArtsAbly in Conversation.

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My name is Diane Kolin.

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This series presents artists, academics,
and project leaders who dedicate their

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time and energy to a better accessibility
for people with disabilities in the arts.

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You can find more of these conversations
on our website, artsably.com

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which is spelled A-R-T-S-A-B-L-Y dot com.

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[Theme music]

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Today, ArtsAbly is in conversation
with Kemal Gorey, who is a media composer

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and accessibility advocate
living in Istanbul in Turkey.

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You can find the resources mentioned
by Kemal Gorey during this episode

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on ArtsAbly's website in the blog section.

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[Playful Cat, by Kemal Gorey]

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[End of Playful Cat]

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Welcome to this new episode
of ArtsAbly in Conversation.

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Today, I am with Kemal Gorey, who is a
media composer and accessibility advocate

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living in Istanbul, in Turkey.
Welcome, Kemal.

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Thank you so much, Diane.

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It's great to be here and
your pronunciation is excellent.

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Thank you.

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Okay, so I would like to start this
episode by asking you about yourself,

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about who you are, what 
brought you to music, 

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what brought you to being a media composer, 

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So tell me more about you.

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Who are you and what led you to music?

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As you said, I'm Kemal Gorey.

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I'm a professional media
composer, classical trained musician.

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I identify as blind.

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I think it's hard to say, Diane,
what was my motivation because I started

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this journey when I was four, I assume,

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because my uncle, who is a singer and songwriter, 

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who has a really accomplished
rock band in my country, Turkey,

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he is one of the legends
of the rock history in my country.

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Also, my father is a guitar player.

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I think I'm born into that environment.

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There were always instruments,
there were always music in the center

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of my family's daily life.

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And I think that habit,
that environment shaped me

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because when I was a little kid,

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I remember that my two beloved go-to toys,

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favorite toys, let's say, is one of my father's 
guitar, which stands right behind of me,

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and the stereo, which I can 
play some music with it,

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with CDs and cassettes.

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Maybe the younger generation doesn't
know what it means, but cassettes are

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the go-to medium for us to consume
the music before all this Spotify thing

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and also before the Napster.
Nobody knows Napster.

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I'm a nerd.
Sorry for that.

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My first...

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How can I say?

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My first memory about music
that I was on the stage when I was four,

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and singing a song with my uncle's band 

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in a really big concert area with the crowd,

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everybody shouting the band's name.

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I was singing the song when I was four.

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That was my very first experience
as a professional and very first memory

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about my music journey.

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Then it all started with the piano lessons
because I fell in love with piano

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and I chose it as a career.

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When I was in high school, I went to
Fine Arts High School in Turkey,

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and I moved on to the college,
again, Fine Arts, a music school.

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I've always wanted to be a musician,
and I've always wanted to be

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a composer, a film composer, actually.

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I think I tell this story everywhere,
but when I was a kid, and it was '90s,

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and the televisions are small
and the resolution was a a joke, in '90s.

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It was hard to me to catch every micro
mimics, gestures, because now we have

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this huge 4K screens with the really 10
bit record, that footage and everything.

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But we don't have that in the past.

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We didn't have that in the past.

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When I was trying to catch the mimics or
where the story will go,

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if I somehow
miss a microgesture or something,

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the score could help me to understand it
because score, basically,

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the music score translates the story
to the music, which is a no-brainer.

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But there's a secret function in it.

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It can serve as an accessibility feature
because let's say in a romantic scene,

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if the music gives a hint, let's say,
of a dark theme, it foreshadows

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something will happen bad in
the short term, in the story.

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If you couldn't get that from the picture,
you can get that from the score.

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That was my trusted guide when I was
watching because I'm visually impaired.

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Yes, I know I always say I identify as blind
because it sounds more clear to me.

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I think we shouldn't
struggle too much with the terminology.

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It's not studies.

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Yes, technically, scientifically,
I'm visually impaired, but it's

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no big deal to say that I'm blind
because we're in the same universe

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as the visual disabled community.

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Back to the topic,
the film scores were my trusted guide,

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and I always wanted to be the one
who creates

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that score with the whole orchestra
and the whole sense with the piano,

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different instruments,
and I have been always curious about

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learning different instruments because I
want to know, I want to understand how they - 

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how they work, basically,
how a violin works, how a trumpet works,

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or how a timpani works, even a vocal,
because vocal also an instrument,

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one of the most complicated ones,
and understanding the mechanics

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of the vocal, it's tricky.

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That's why, for example,
I majored opera singing in college.

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Yes, I can sing some songs from
the Mozart's Don Giovanni opera,

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[laughs]
or it's another story.

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Then, I went to college.

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It's a completely different beat.

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Let's say, training, education

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in Turkey can be really a challenge

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if you have a disability.

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Let's say it was because I have an idea
about the current situation,

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but I'm not experiencing it.

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That's why I would like to
say that it was a great challenge

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if you want to be educated
and if you have a disability in Turkey.

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Solving the problems, inventing

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some methods, it becomes a daily habit

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for a disabled student, even
when you were six or seven years old.

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But in the end of the day,
when I graduated from college,

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I knew what I wanted to do,
but life had different plans for me.

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I worked as an active musician,
a recording artist, a live musician,

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and also an arranger, a ghostwriter.

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In Turkey, I had done many things to
be able to survive, to be able to build a

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career, build a life a sustainable life.

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At some point, I decided to make a shift
in my career, and I decided to

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do what I really want to do.

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It's all about killing
the what-if person in your mind,

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because there's always a what-if person.

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What if I'm not talented enough?

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What if I'm not professional
or experienced enough, what if

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the things that I know are all wrong,
all If I'm all mistaken about myself.

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When you kill that personality in your
mind, the what if guy,

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I would like to call it that way,
then you can become anything you like

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because the
greatest barriers that we face,

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not the accessibility challenges,
not the ableism, but this passive

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internalized ableism, it's what-if,
that you build in your mind,

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thanks to people's opinions about you.

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Thanks to people, how people
treat you on daily basis.

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But when you kill that person, kill
that character, kill that imagination

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in your mind, then it all wides open
because there's no barriers then.

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Accessibility problems?

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Yeah, I know that.

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I'm dealing with them
since when I was a kid.

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Yeah, ableism, I know that too.

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I'm dealing with those
also since when I was kid.

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These are not problems at all.

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Yes, these are important problems,
but I know how to deal with them.

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I know how to fight with them.

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I only didn't know how to fight with
that what-if person in my head.

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Now I beaten it, I can do anything I want
because there's no barriers.

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I decided to become a media composer.

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I decided to build a career in the States
and in the Hollywood, ultimately,

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and I am in that path right now.

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So, once you killed the what-if in yourself,
you stopped being a ghost writer

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and you became a composer with the name
that you're carrying right now.

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Yeah, we can say it that way also.

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But I think even if I know that
I want to do something with my name,

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I don't think I will find any chance
in Turkey as a media composer

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because I didn't specifically
request it to be a ghostwriter.

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That was the only way that I can score
music to a motion picture and get paid.

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That was the...

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How can I say?

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That was the conditions for me
in the past because

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they only offer me to be a ghostwriter
because somehow the production company is

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either ashamed or terrified to work with a
composer with a visual disability

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because even they can't understand how
can I synch the music to the picture.

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Even I say that, Okay,
I can see the picture.

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I have a full spectrum vision.

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Yes, I can see things while I'm walking
because it's the part of

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retinitis pigmentosa, part of the nystagmus.

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These are the medical conditions
and has some effects on my eyes,

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so I can't see properly, which doesn't
mean that I can't work with a picture.

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Even a blind person can
work with a picture.

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Maybe they can use a sight assistant
or something, or they can basically

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use the script and time codes.

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Anything can possible.

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It's all about how we
understand the matter.

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Do we need some...

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Are we open-minded or not?

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Do we need a great music
to this picture or not?

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But the production companies
in the past, maybe the situation

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is the same, I'm not sure,
always wondering to work with a person

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who's similar, who look familiar to them.

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Let's put it that way.

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What was the triggering point?

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When did you decide, Okay, I'm going to

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submit my own media music score, and I'm

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going to compose for films and submit it?

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Actually, you know what?

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Two things has triggered me.

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First, I had a cataract surgery,
and it was a high-risky one.

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There was a great chance that I

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lose all the sight. But I found a legendary

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surgeon, and he took care
of the process without any problems.

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That things change your mentality.

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Okay, I survived that.

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I survived from that.

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So maybe I can do more
in my life because I survived.

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It was highly stressful,
but nothing bad happened.

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Maybe nothing bad happen
in my career also.

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But ultimately, it all started 
with a YouTube video.

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It was summer, COVID,
first year of the pandemic.

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I was in the YouTube because
that's what I do as a nerd.

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I will always search some better tutorial

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videos about music, sound technologies,

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media composition, and all that stuff.

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I saw a video of a guy,
a white American guy who says that he is

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the founder of a foundation
called Able Artist Foundationn, also

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says that he is also visually impaired,
and he's a professional media composer.

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In the video, that said that, Okay,
you can be a member of our foundation.

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Also, we have a contest.

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If you want to submit your music,
we will review it and we will

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choose some of you as winners.

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I think in that very moment, I decided

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to change all my attitude because there's

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a person 10,000 miles away from my home
who is a professional media composer

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who has a visual disability
called retinitis pigmentosa.

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His name is Stephen Letnes,
and he is the CEO and founder

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of the Able Artist Foundation.

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I decided to submit my track
because I wasn't alone anymore.

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I'm not the only kind of my species.
There are others.

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So I decided to submit my track
and see what happens.

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In that moment, I, utterly,
I decided to kill that what-if person

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because, okay, there are more.

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I found my familiars now.

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I don't have to be alone.
I don't have to tell.

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I don't have to craft my path.

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I can basically connect with them.

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I can basically find my community,
which I've always been seeking out.

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I submit my tracks.

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And two months later, I was named as the
Grand Prize winner, and it all started.

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Congratulations.

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Thank you. It was four years ago,
but still excited about it.

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Since then, I'm the one who...

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I'm one of the jury members.

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[Laughs.]

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Okay, so what happened next?

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What happened after you won this contest?

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Actually, I've been talking
with some of my friends about this, and

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normally I have another answer to that,
but let me give you a brand new one.

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After that, actually,
there was an interview with Stephen,

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Stephen Letnes, for the 
Able Artist Foundation's fundraiser.

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00:17:58,043 --> 00:18:06,118
Most part of the prizes are the softwares.

234
00:18:06,151 --> 00:18:11,723
I received some of the great compliments
of the software or, let's say,

235
00:18:11,723 --> 00:18:18,630
sound set developers that I've
been following in my entire life.

236
00:18:18,697 --> 00:18:25,537
The other prize is connecting
with a library music publisher.

237
00:18:25,537 --> 00:18:28,040
That's what I was looking for by myself.

238
00:18:28,140 --> 00:18:29,241
It came to me.

239
00:18:29,241 --> 00:18:30,642
It came to me.

240
00:18:30,676 --> 00:18:33,979
I submit some of my tracks
to that publisher.

241
00:18:34,012 --> 00:18:38,817
We set an interview, we set a meeting,
and they want to onboard all of my music.

242
00:18:39,585 --> 00:18:43,822
I don't have to do anything.

243
00:18:43,856 --> 00:18:45,791
I don't have to compose new music.

244
00:18:45,824 --> 00:18:50,162
They wanted to onboard my existing tracks.
It was great.

245
00:18:50,195 --> 00:18:51,563
I send it through.

246
00:18:51,597 --> 00:18:58,704
Then I started working some new music
packs for that publisher, Hitlist Music.

247
00:19:00,205 --> 00:19:02,441
I submitted some tracks.

248
00:19:02,441 --> 00:19:05,377
They decided to onboard them also.

249
00:19:06,044 --> 00:19:06,945
Then it all started.

250
00:19:06,979 --> 00:19:13,552
Then I started I don't jump into
each opportunity that I see.

251
00:19:13,585 --> 00:19:17,422
I rejected to say no to anything.

252
00:19:17,422 --> 00:19:21,293
The yes became the default answer for me.

253
00:19:21,326 --> 00:19:23,095
Hey, do you want to do this?
Yes.

254
00:19:23,128 --> 00:19:25,097
You want to be in this project?
Yes.

255
00:19:25,130 --> 00:19:27,733
There's no no because
there's no need to say no.

256
00:19:27,766 --> 00:19:30,035
There's no need to be hesitated.

257
00:19:30,068 --> 00:19:32,771
I know that I can do that.

258
00:19:32,804 --> 00:19:35,374
Wasn't that stressful?
Highly stressful.

259
00:19:35,407 --> 00:19:39,778
I always doubt myself because it's
a part of being a musician.

260
00:19:39,811 --> 00:19:43,248
This relationship is toxic with music.

261
00:19:43,282 --> 00:19:48,754
You never can say that,
Okay, this sounds good.

262
00:19:48,787 --> 00:19:53,358
No matter if you're a concertist, an
instrumentalist, a songwriter, a singer,

263
00:19:53,392 --> 00:19:56,295
a composer, it will be never done.

264
00:19:56,295 --> 00:20:02,167
As you perfectly know that
it can't be good enough for us.

265
00:20:02,201 --> 00:20:06,271
Our work can't be good
enough for ourselves.

266
00:20:06,271 --> 00:20:10,075
But I stopped worrying about that.

267
00:20:10,108 --> 00:20:14,246
Then I started to think, Okay,
people, the reviewers, the client

268
00:20:14,279 --> 00:20:16,615
can say to me, It's not working.

269
00:20:16,648 --> 00:20:19,651
I do what I can do.
I give my best.

270
00:20:19,685 --> 00:20:22,254
Then we'll see what will happen.

271
00:20:22,287 --> 00:20:28,994
Changing that mindset
opens all the doors for me.

272
00:20:29,027 --> 00:20:32,764
In this interview with Stephen...

273
00:20:32,764 --> 00:20:36,969
I'm always looking at what
is happening behind the scene.

274
00:20:37,002 --> 00:20:39,805
How does a composer work? 
What is the details?

275
00:20:39,838 --> 00:20:43,475
How do you use your softwares
and things like that?

276
00:20:43,508 --> 00:20:48,814
You showed a pair of glasses
with a telescope attached.

277
00:20:48,847 --> 00:20:51,883
Can you explain how you use that?

278
00:20:51,917 --> 00:20:57,222
Actually, it was my previous equipment,
thanks to recent technological

279
00:20:57,256 --> 00:21:01,326
improvements, now, I switched 
to digital instruments.

280
00:21:01,326 --> 00:21:05,897
But for most time of my life,
I've been using some kind of telescopes.

281
00:21:05,931 --> 00:21:08,934
It was an ugly one, I know.
[Laughs.]

282
00:21:08,967 --> 00:21:13,372
It's another thing
in the disability culture.

283
00:21:13,405 --> 00:21:16,408
The accessibility instruments are ugly.

284
00:21:16,441 --> 00:21:22,047
They should be able to design them more
fancy, fancier, more fancy.

285
00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:23,548
But they avoid to do that.

286
00:21:23,582 --> 00:21:28,320
Then we end up with using some ugly

287
00:21:28,687 --> 00:21:31,757
instruments, not designed that

288
00:21:31,790 --> 00:21:33,959
fancy, that sexy.

289
00:21:33,992 --> 00:21:35,661
But I've been using that.

290
00:21:35,694 --> 00:21:37,963
When you used to work
with those telescopes,

291
00:21:37,996 --> 00:21:42,801
it become like a part of your body.

292
00:21:42,834 --> 00:21:48,373
But you always end up keep moving
your head because it's a tiny thing,

293
00:21:48,407 --> 00:21:50,776
and you see the monitor in that part.

294
00:21:50,809 --> 00:21:54,846
You can see the general picture,
but if you want to focus on something,

295
00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:59,685
if you want to, let's say,
follow the mouse cursor,

296
00:21:59,718 --> 00:22:04,456
you have to use that telescope and you're
ending up moving your head and it

297
00:22:04,489 --> 00:22:10,395
can cause a great headache in a let's say,
6 hours of writing session because you

298
00:22:10,429 --> 00:22:13,565
have headphones, studio-level headphones.

299
00:22:13,598 --> 00:22:18,470
You have that considerably heavy
telescopes and you have

300
00:22:18,503 --> 00:22:20,539
to move your head all the time.

301
00:22:20,572 --> 00:22:25,377
Now, I moved my head and I completely
messed up with the microphone.

302
00:22:25,410 --> 00:22:27,479
Sorry for that.
[Laughs.]

303
00:22:27,512 --> 00:22:28,547
Okay.

304
00:22:28,580 --> 00:22:31,383
Maybe I could get a lavalier.

305
00:22:31,383 --> 00:22:33,018
Sorry.

306
00:22:33,051 --> 00:22:36,054
What's your digital version, now?

307
00:22:36,088 --> 00:22:40,959
Now, thanks to operating 
system developers, now

308
00:22:40,992 --> 00:22:44,563
we have great inbuilt magnifiers.

309
00:22:44,596 --> 00:22:49,101
This basically works as the telescopes,
but these are digital,

310
00:22:49,134 --> 00:22:52,537
so resolution is really high.

311
00:22:52,537 --> 00:22:57,542
Also, you can shape the magnifier, how big
will be the frame, or you can be the

312
00:22:57,576 --> 00:22:59,544
full screen magnification if you want.

313
00:22:59,578 --> 00:23:03,715
You can switch between
different modes, and basically,

314
00:23:03,749 --> 00:23:05,517
it can attach to the mouse.

315
00:23:05,550 --> 00:23:10,622
When you move your cursor,
the magnifier will follow it.

316
00:23:10,622 --> 00:23:15,927
It's basically a digital frame,
a virtual frame on your screen,

317
00:23:15,927 --> 00:23:17,129
on your computer screen.

318
00:23:17,162 --> 00:23:23,969
Also, for example, on your tablet
or phone, it basically same.

319
00:23:24,002 --> 00:23:27,372
The Mac version is better.

320
00:23:27,405 --> 00:23:31,676
The magnifiers in macOS
works better to me, also in iPhone

321
00:23:31,710 --> 00:23:34,045
and iPad, but it depends.

322
00:23:34,079 --> 00:23:39,417
I have many colleagues who
feel more comfortable with Windows.

323
00:23:39,451 --> 00:23:46,124
Also, I've been a former Windows user
for more than 30 years, so I can say that

324
00:23:46,124 --> 00:23:49,294
these digital magnifiers
serve really well.

325
00:23:49,327 --> 00:23:52,697
Now, I'm really excited about this new

326
00:23:52,731 --> 00:23:59,037
artificial - no - Augmented reality glasses like

327
00:23:59,070 --> 00:24:06,211
the Apple Vision, Apple Pro Vision, and
the Meta's new prototype, Orion glasses.

328
00:24:06,244 --> 00:24:10,215
Basically, then we won't need 
a computer screen anymore.

329
00:24:10,248 --> 00:24:14,920
The Augmented Reality Glasses
will be able to create.

330
00:24:14,953 --> 00:24:19,157
It's still now that you can do it
with the Apple Vision Pro.

331
00:24:19,191 --> 00:24:23,328
It basically creates a virtual screen
as big as you want to and

332
00:24:23,361 --> 00:24:25,030
in which position you want to.

333
00:24:25,063 --> 00:24:30,335
So you don't have to look
a screen and hurt your neck.

334
00:24:30,669 --> 00:24:35,607
Practically, in theory, you can lay down
and look at the ceiling, and the

335
00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:41,379
Augmented Reality glasses will create a
screen on the ceiling as big as you want.

336
00:24:41,413 --> 00:24:45,183
You will be able to use
your magnifier features and everything

337
00:24:45,183 --> 00:24:48,119
because it will be a computer screen
in the end of the day.

338
00:24:48,153 --> 00:24:54,092
But it will be another great
invention, innovation for the

339
00:24:54,125 --> 00:24:56,127
visually impaired community, let's say.

340
00:24:56,161 --> 00:25:01,066
There will be also use cases
in the outside, a different story.

341
00:25:01,099 --> 00:25:05,437
But these technologies, even though not

342
00:25:05,470 --> 00:25:08,607
focusing the blind community 

343
00:25:08,607 --> 00:25:13,178
or centralize the blind community, they are
working on some accessibility features.

344
00:25:13,211 --> 00:25:17,349
Also, there are third-party companies
that also can create, can come up

345
00:25:17,382 --> 00:25:21,786
with features or software solutions
to make our lives easier.

346
00:25:21,786 --> 00:25:25,991
But in my case, I basically
use a digital magnifier

347
00:25:26,024 --> 00:25:27,893
and my mouse cursor, my keyboard.

348
00:25:27,926 --> 00:25:31,796
It's half conventional, half my way.

349
00:25:31,830 --> 00:25:37,435
I have blind friends who can use the DAW

350
00:25:37,469 --> 00:25:40,305
softwares, Digital Audio Workstation,
without touching the mouse.

351
00:25:40,338 --> 00:25:45,744
They are really great and faster than me,
faster than any other engineer or

352
00:25:45,744 --> 00:25:49,915
any other artist on the face of the Earth
because they use the keyboard, they are

353
00:25:49,948 --> 00:25:52,350
really fast, really faster than me.

354
00:25:52,384 --> 00:25:56,688
I'm willing to learn that thing in the
future, that method, that way of work.

355
00:25:56,721 --> 00:26:00,091
But most of the time I do that.

356
00:26:00,125 --> 00:26:04,029
Can you give us a feel of what projects
you're working on right now?

357
00:26:04,062 --> 00:26:07,666
Do you have some
interesting work on the go?

358
00:26:07,666 --> 00:26:11,069
Yeah, of course. I have something
that I can tell you right now,

359
00:26:11,102 --> 00:26:15,440
but there are things also I can't tell.
[Laughs.]

360
00:26:15,607 --> 00:26:19,377
NDAs can be a pain in the neck.

361
00:26:19,577 --> 00:26:24,015
Most recently, last week, 

362
00:26:24,015 --> 00:26:27,485
the first Guide Dog documentary 
of my country, Turkey, 

363
00:26:27,485 --> 00:26:31,957
has premiered in the TRT 
Documentary Awards.

364
00:26:31,990 --> 00:26:33,959
It's a Turkey radio and television.

365
00:26:33,992 --> 00:26:37,529
You can think it as the equivalent of BBC.

366
00:26:37,562 --> 00:26:43,668
Also, they have an interesting relationship
with BBC, also a partnership.

367
00:26:44,402 --> 00:26:46,738
It's the first of its kind.

368
00:26:46,771 --> 00:26:51,609
Also, I'm really excited about it because
first, my lovely Guide Dog, Blut -

369
00:26:51,643 --> 00:26:56,815
I forgot to mention about her, and that's
why she will give me such a hard time

370
00:26:56,848 --> 00:26:58,183
because she's a drama queen.

371
00:26:58,183 --> 00:27:01,619
Let's mention about her right now.

372
00:27:01,619 --> 00:27:02,721
It's real.

373
00:27:02,754 --> 00:27:04,456
Don't laugh.

374
00:27:04,489 --> 00:27:07,359
She's a real drama queen.
[Laughs.]

375
00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:10,195
I cannot be able to hug anybody anymore

376
00:27:10,228 --> 00:27:14,499
because she doesn't allow me to do that.

377
00:27:14,532 --> 00:27:16,568
It's the first of its kind.

378
00:27:16,568 --> 00:27:21,840
My lovely guide dog, Blut,
was the star of the first episode.

379
00:27:21,873 --> 00:27:24,476
I was the composer of that series.

380
00:27:24,509 --> 00:27:28,480
The TRT premiered the first episode,

381
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:31,683
and it was the most interesting one

382
00:27:31,683 --> 00:27:36,955
and had the most attention
in the documentary awards.

383
00:27:36,988 --> 00:27:40,492
The more important thing
is, yes, it's the first, 

384
00:27:40,492 --> 00:27:42,694
Turkey's first guide dog documentary.

385
00:27:42,727 --> 00:27:50,935
Yes, I think I win the TRT's first blind

386
00:27:50,969 --> 00:27:55,540
composer in TRT's history. They hired me

387
00:27:55,573 --> 00:28:01,546
for this documentary series,
and it was the first time for them, too.

388
00:28:01,579 --> 00:28:06,451
So it was a historic
moment for TRT, I guess.

389
00:28:06,484 --> 00:28:12,590
But the most importantly, they make

390
00:28:12,624 --> 00:28:16,694
this story telling, make the narration

391
00:28:17,896 --> 00:28:20,899
prioritizing disability justice.

392
00:28:20,932 --> 00:28:25,770
It's also a first thing happened
in my country because there

393
00:28:25,804 --> 00:28:30,141
are some documentaries about disability
culture which are inaccurate,

394
00:28:30,141 --> 00:28:34,813
I think, completely ableist,
and has a wrong narration

395
00:28:34,846 --> 00:28:38,283
about the disability justice because
they're not prioritizing

396
00:28:38,316 --> 00:28:38,950
disability justice.

397
00:28:38,983 --> 00:28:43,221
They don't know the concept,
the term disability justice at all.

398
00:28:43,254 --> 00:28:50,462
But this is a documentary, use the correct
terminology, correct language,

399
00:28:50,462 --> 00:28:56,434
correct narration, and has the quality
of disability justice, 

400
00:28:56,434 --> 00:28:59,104
carries the quality of disability justice.

401
00:28:59,104 --> 00:29:04,943
I consulted them to finetune
the narration, the voiceovers,

402
00:29:04,943 --> 00:29:09,447
and all cinematography and narration.

403
00:29:09,447 --> 00:29:14,853
They were kind enough
to listen me, they accept my input.

404
00:29:14,886 --> 00:29:18,723
That's why I'm so excited,
because now we have a documentary

405
00:29:18,723 --> 00:29:20,725
about guide dogs in Turkey.

406
00:29:20,759 --> 00:29:22,727
It can be...

407
00:29:22,994 --> 00:29:25,763
It's a 2024 documentary.

408
00:29:25,797 --> 00:29:33,104
If that documentary is produced
in the States, in Canada, the narration

409
00:29:34,472 --> 00:29:36,574
can't be better than that.

410
00:29:36,608 --> 00:29:42,147
So that's one of my...
That's one of my great honors.

411
00:29:42,147 --> 00:29:44,883
There's a documentary
produced in my country

412
00:29:44,916 --> 00:29:51,289
with a correct narration, language,
which prioritize the disability justice.

413
00:29:51,322 --> 00:29:56,795
Plus, you told me that guide dogs
are recent in Turkey, right?

414
00:29:56,828 --> 00:29:58,663
Of course.
Yeah.

415
00:29:59,230 --> 00:30:00,331
Of course.

416
00:30:00,365 --> 00:30:03,935
You say, Of course,
because you live in Turkey.

417
00:30:03,968 --> 00:30:09,807
But some people who are listening to us
or watching this interview today, 

418
00:30:09,807 --> 00:30:11,442
they must say, What?

419
00:30:11,476 --> 00:30:14,946
But I thought guide dogs were existing

420
00:30:14,979 --> 00:30:19,817
since, I don't know, 10 years, 15 years.

421
00:30:19,817 --> 00:30:26,624
But it's important to say that
in Turkey, now you have a few

422
00:30:26,658 --> 00:30:31,162
families, including you,
having a guide dog, which is great.

423
00:30:31,196 --> 00:30:34,299
Yeah, it's a brand new thing.

424
00:30:35,366 --> 00:30:39,804
The blind society, the blind community,
always wanted to have guide dogs

425
00:30:39,837 --> 00:30:42,173
as our accessibility partners.

426
00:30:42,207 --> 00:30:46,077
But we have a stray dog
situation in Turkey.

427
00:30:46,110 --> 00:30:46,978
It's different.

428
00:30:47,011 --> 00:30:52,851
Actually, we have the least dog
and cat population in Europe territory.

429
00:30:52,884 --> 00:30:59,057
But the dog and cat owning
rates are pretty low.

430
00:30:59,057 --> 00:31:05,296
Most of our dogs and cats live on the
street, which is a shame for my country

431
00:31:05,330 --> 00:31:11,703
and for my people because the dogs
or cats are not comfortable on streets.

432
00:31:11,703 --> 00:31:14,005
They need their families.

433
00:31:14,038 --> 00:31:18,543
They need families, they
need houses, they need medical...

434
00:31:19,277 --> 00:31:22,647
They need health care,
they need medical attention.

435
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:27,185
But because we have stray dogs, 
a lot of stray dogs in Turkey,

436
00:31:27,185 --> 00:31:32,690
the default paradigm was 

437
00:31:32,690 --> 00:31:34,826
we can't have guide dogs 
because we have stray dogs.

438
00:31:34,859 --> 00:31:37,562
We have a lot of stray dogs in Turkey.

439
00:31:37,595 --> 00:31:43,768
But it turns out, stray dogs are not
a problem at all because they know that

440
00:31:43,801 --> 00:31:50,174
our guide dogs are service animals,
and our trainers can fine-tune our guide

441
00:31:50,208 --> 00:31:55,346
dogs attitudes and behavior when they see

442
00:31:55,380 --> 00:31:58,049
or when they're faced with a stray dog.

443
00:31:58,082 --> 00:32:01,819
Our guide dogs can use the diplomacy
to get out of the situation.

444
00:32:01,853 --> 00:32:07,091
Most of the time, stray
dogs do their own thing.

445
00:32:07,125 --> 00:32:08,860
They're not really interested with us.

446
00:32:08,860 --> 00:32:13,298
In 10 years, the program
is 10 years old now, I guess,

447
00:32:13,298 --> 00:32:18,903
we have nine guide dogs on duty, and most
interestingly, four of them was in

448
00:32:18,936 --> 00:32:20,939
the documentary Awards for the Premiere.

449
00:32:20,972 --> 00:32:26,744
It was really great because the Guide Dog
program is new and because we have a

450
00:32:26,744 --> 00:32:32,417
stray dog situation in Turkey,
there's a lack of awareness when it comes

451
00:32:32,450 --> 00:32:38,489
to Guide Dogs because as you know,
we can go to restaurants, hospitals,

452
00:32:38,523 --> 00:32:42,260
theaters, we can onboard to aircraft,

453
00:32:42,260 --> 00:32:44,195
and everywhere with our guide dogs.

454
00:32:44,228 --> 00:32:51,135
But the good people of my country still
struggling with that fact.

455
00:32:51,169 --> 00:32:52,737
How should they handle it?

456
00:32:52,770 --> 00:32:55,406
Actually, the community support is great.

457
00:32:55,440 --> 00:33:00,211
If you ask the people on the street,
they all love guide dogs.

458
00:33:00,244 --> 00:33:05,883
They are fascinated, and they're
so excited that we have guide dogs,

459
00:33:05,917 --> 00:33:11,489
and they would love to us in everywhere.

460
00:33:11,522 --> 00:33:17,328
Restaurants, theaters, planes,
I don't know, subways, busses,

461
00:33:17,362 --> 00:33:19,530
everywhere, in hospitals.

462
00:33:19,564 --> 00:33:23,468
But the owners or work employees

463
00:33:23,501 --> 00:33:27,105
of that facilities are struggling

464
00:33:27,138 --> 00:33:33,211
to understand that they have
to allow us in their environment,

465
00:33:33,244 --> 00:33:36,047
in their facility, their business.

466
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:42,120
So it became a battle on daily 
basis because there's a lack

467
00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:48,526
of knowledge, lack of understanding,
and lack of awareness, which makes us

468
00:33:48,526 --> 00:33:52,663
a natural ambassador of guide dogs.

469
00:33:52,663 --> 00:33:59,037
We're doing that work as public figures

470
00:33:59,070 --> 00:34:04,175
because we have to shape the mindset of

471
00:34:04,208 --> 00:34:10,047
the society if you want to access 

472
00:34:10,047 --> 00:34:12,817
to the places like everybody does, everybody do.

473
00:34:12,850 --> 00:34:15,219
But it's getting better.

474
00:34:15,253 --> 00:34:18,756
The situation was worse
even two years ago and getting better.

475
00:34:18,790 --> 00:34:23,961
One thing about Turks.

476
00:34:23,995 --> 00:34:26,297
Yes, we can be skeptical.

477
00:34:26,330 --> 00:34:34,038
We can insist to do not understand things

478
00:34:34,072 --> 00:34:36,340
if something conflicts with

479
00:34:36,374 --> 00:34:40,645
our cultural knowledge I'm not
talking about everybody, let's say,

480
00:34:40,645 --> 00:34:47,185
for the society itself, culturally, but

481
00:34:47,218 --> 00:34:49,720
we are quick adopters and quick learners.

482
00:34:49,754 --> 00:34:54,926
If somehow someone manage to tell us

483
00:34:54,959 --> 00:34:58,429
the situation correctly, and if we decide

484
00:34:58,429 --> 00:35:05,169
to be open-minded, then we can become
a quick learner or a practical thinker.

485
00:35:05,203 --> 00:35:07,805
That's the thing about my people.

486
00:35:07,839 --> 00:35:13,644
I know that there are also problems
in Greece because the culture are

487
00:35:13,644 --> 00:35:15,847
pretty identical with Greece and Turkey.

488
00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:21,619
We have a lot common, but also
there are quick learners.

489
00:35:21,652 --> 00:35:25,823
I believe in the future,
the situation will be better.

490
00:35:25,823 --> 00:35:32,663
We need to be more, let's say, we need to
be more productive as the blind community

491
00:35:32,663 --> 00:35:35,500
and do our ambassador work as well.

492
00:35:35,500 --> 00:35:39,403
But yeah, I know it
sounds a little It's a bit weird because

493
00:35:39,437 --> 00:35:45,042
Turkey is the only country, I guess,
don't have an equivalent of ADA,

494
00:35:45,076 --> 00:35:49,747
even though Turkey is part of the 
United Nations Convention on the

495
00:35:49,780 --> 00:35:52,183
Rights of the Persons with Disabilities.

496
00:35:52,183 --> 00:35:58,256
But these are the problems,
and problems can be solved.

497
00:35:58,289 --> 00:36:02,693
What about the impact of that on the art?

498
00:36:02,727 --> 00:36:07,198
For you, what does it mean, accessibility
in the arts in that context,

499
00:36:07,231 --> 00:36:13,070
or disability disability culture, because
that's something we might talk about.

500
00:36:13,237 --> 00:36:17,608
I will ask you, we are both part of RAMPD.

501
00:36:17,642 --> 00:36:18,476
Yeah, of course.

502
00:36:18,509 --> 00:36:22,747
In RAMPD, we have this discussion about
disability culture,

503
00:36:22,747 --> 00:36:26,851
and we have this notion of accessibility
in the arts, which is already difficult

504
00:36:26,884 --> 00:36:30,488
in the United States, as you know,
because you work there, too,

505
00:36:30,521 --> 00:36:34,125
and also because of your connections
with RAMPD, which I will ask you

506
00:36:34,125 --> 00:36:35,693
a little bit more about that.

507
00:36:35,726 --> 00:36:36,360
Of course.

508
00:36:36,394 --> 00:36:41,766
But before that,
this impact of the fighting

509
00:36:41,799 --> 00:36:47,738
for a better accessibility in Turkey,
how is it represented in the arts?

510
00:36:48,072 --> 00:36:54,712
Actually, there are some representation
in the arts, but in Turkey,

511
00:36:54,745 --> 00:36:58,015
the situation is a little bit different.
We have a different...

512
00:36:58,049 --> 00:37:03,721
Let's say there's a documentary,
Crip Camp, nominated to the Oscars

513
00:37:03,721 --> 00:37:08,960
a couple of years ago, directed by Jim
Lebrecht, who is a Director,

514
00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:11,495
identifying as disabled also.

515
00:37:11,529 --> 00:37:17,835
In Crip Camp, the disabled citizens
of the United States were fighting

516
00:37:17,868 --> 00:37:24,242
for the Rehabilitation Act,
which rejected by Nixon.

517
00:37:24,275 --> 00:37:31,248
And his words are, and I quote,
it will be too expensive to rehabilitate

518
00:37:31,282 --> 00:37:34,318
the places for the disabled citizens.

519
00:37:34,352 --> 00:37:39,223
And honestly, they didn't earn that.

520
00:37:39,223 --> 00:37:42,727
They didn't have enough contribution

521
00:37:42,727 --> 00:37:44,528
to the society financially.

522
00:37:44,562 --> 00:37:46,364
That was the Nixon's words.

523
00:37:46,397 --> 00:37:49,567
And the disability in action started.

524
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:55,740
They fighted for their rights,
and then the Nixon had to sign

525
00:37:55,740 --> 00:37:58,876
the act, Rehabilitation Act.

526
00:37:59,076 --> 00:38:03,314
In Turkey, the situation is different.

527
00:38:03,581 --> 00:38:08,119
In America, in the States,
a President can stand up and say that,

528
00:38:08,152 --> 00:38:12,923
Okay, I won't give anything
to the disabled citizens because to me,

529
00:38:12,923 --> 00:38:19,864
they are not paying enough taxes,
which is ridiculous because did they

530
00:38:19,864 --> 00:38:25,302
provide enough employment
opportunity to the disabled citizens?

531
00:38:25,302 --> 00:38:31,876
Did they provide the accessible education
environment to the disabled citizens?

532
00:38:31,909 --> 00:38:37,114
But even though they didn't
do any of those things, the President

533
00:38:37,148 --> 00:38:41,118
can stand up and say, Okay,
we won't do this rehabilitation thing

534
00:38:41,152 --> 00:38:42,420
because it's expensive.

535
00:38:42,453 --> 00:38:45,256
I don't want to spend that money
to the disabled citizens

536
00:38:45,289 --> 00:38:47,391
because they do not deserve it.

537
00:38:47,425 --> 00:38:54,799
But in the end of the day, they had to
because the disabled citizens,

538
00:38:54,832 --> 00:39:01,105
the citizens with disabilities,
make their cases pretty hard.

539
00:39:01,105 --> 00:39:04,709
In Turkey, the situation is different.

540
00:39:05,976 --> 00:39:09,814
Maybe it's being East because,
for example, being in the East,

541
00:39:09,847 --> 00:39:11,816
it's the Eastern culture.

542
00:39:11,849 --> 00:39:16,921
You can see the same
similar reactions or similar practices,

543
00:39:16,921 --> 00:39:19,724
for example, in China or in Japan.

544
00:39:19,757 --> 00:39:24,395
For example, in China, people always
live in multi-generation houses.

545
00:39:24,428 --> 00:39:27,164
In Turkey, most of the people
do the same thing.

546
00:39:27,198 --> 00:39:31,268
From an American perspective,
it's really weird, right?

547
00:39:31,302 --> 00:39:35,673
You live with your grandma, grandpa,
your father, mother, a couple of brothers

548
00:39:35,706 --> 00:39:37,575
and sisters in the same house.

549
00:39:37,608 --> 00:39:39,910
A multi-generation house,
it's really different.

550
00:39:39,944 --> 00:39:44,148
In those houses, they became

551
00:39:44,749 --> 00:39:47,585
excessively overprotective if

552
00:39:47,618 --> 00:39:50,955
there is a disabled child in the house.

553
00:39:51,422 --> 00:39:54,925
The attitude, the common practice
is, Okay, we can do anything

554
00:39:54,959 --> 00:39:56,527
and everything on your behalf.

555
00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:58,963
You don't have to do anything.
You are the king.

556
00:39:58,996 --> 00:40:01,298
We do anything for you.

557
00:40:01,465 --> 00:40:05,503
But okay, but this person
has to be trained, have to learn how to

558
00:40:05,536 --> 00:40:12,042
read and write, have to learn a lot
of things, be an undergrad diploma

559
00:40:12,042 --> 00:40:14,512
certificate, be a bachelor certificate.

560
00:40:14,845 --> 00:40:16,981
Have a bachelor certificate.

561
00:40:16,981 --> 00:40:18,883
Have a profession.
Has a profession.

562
00:40:18,883 --> 00:40:21,318
But no, we can do anything.

563
00:40:21,352 --> 00:40:25,356
We can brush your teeth even
We can brush your teeth.

564
00:40:25,389 --> 00:40:27,057
We don't teach you to do anything.

565
00:40:27,091 --> 00:40:31,996
We can do it on your behalf
until we will die.

566
00:40:32,029 --> 00:40:33,898
What's the purpose of that?

567
00:40:33,898 --> 00:40:34,965
I can't see.

568
00:40:34,965 --> 00:40:40,237
But that's the cultural -
cultural phenomenon.

569
00:40:40,738 --> 00:40:44,475
Our mother's always,
Okay, I can iron your clothes.

570
00:40:44,508 --> 00:40:45,576
I can wash your clothes.

571
00:40:45,609 --> 00:40:48,345
I can even give you a bath!

572
00:40:48,379 --> 00:40:50,347
Because you're disabled.

573
00:40:50,381 --> 00:40:52,716
No, teach me how to do that.

574
00:40:52,750 --> 00:40:56,854
I was one of the real lucky ones that my

575
00:40:56,887 --> 00:41:00,591
family has a pretty good understanding

576
00:41:00,624 --> 00:41:06,764
about everything because they
are college-educated parents and they are

577
00:41:06,797 --> 00:41:11,936
connected with the rest of 
the world and they understand

578
00:41:11,936 --> 00:41:14,004
the importance of accessibility.

579
00:41:14,004 --> 00:41:18,242
Thanks to my supporting mom
and dad, yes, they made mistakes

580
00:41:18,242 --> 00:41:23,147
because they are the only ones
fighting for my accessibility rights.

581
00:41:23,180 --> 00:41:27,718
They are the only ones trying to learn
everything, and it's simply impossible

582
00:41:27,751 --> 00:41:32,323
to learn everything without
a specialist, without an expert's help.

583
00:41:32,356 --> 00:41:37,928
But they managed to do all
of these things with their knowledge,

584
00:41:37,962 --> 00:41:40,865
I've become who I am today.

585
00:41:40,898 --> 00:41:47,605
There are some rare examples also
who become successful, productive,

586
00:41:47,605 --> 00:41:50,441
and respected members of the community.

587
00:41:50,474 --> 00:41:52,209
But the numbers are low.

588
00:41:52,243 --> 00:41:54,011
We cannot talk about statistics.

589
00:41:54,044 --> 00:41:57,982
We have that amount of

590
00:41:58,349 --> 00:42:01,919
high-educated disabled citizens.

591
00:42:01,952 --> 00:42:05,289
This is the rate for unemployment
or under-employment.

592
00:42:05,322 --> 00:42:10,628
We can't talk about that because the
Turks still to protect their children.

593
00:42:10,661 --> 00:42:17,434
They even don't know what they're
protecting their children from.

594
00:42:17,468 --> 00:42:21,305
But they are learning because now,
thanks to Gen Z and thanks

595
00:42:21,338 --> 00:42:27,378
to internet and social networks, now
we connected to the world, all of us.

596
00:42:27,378 --> 00:42:28,879
We have access to the knowledge.

597
00:42:28,913 --> 00:42:32,683
We have access to the different
cultures, different vantage

598
00:42:32,683 --> 00:42:34,785
points, different perspectives.

599
00:42:34,785 --> 00:42:38,489
So it's completely different thing.

600
00:42:38,522 --> 00:42:43,494
In RAMPD, in America, in the States,

601
00:42:43,527 --> 00:42:46,597
individualism is the key.

602
00:42:46,630 --> 00:42:51,936
At RAMPD, we try to
force the interdependency.

603
00:42:51,969 --> 00:42:57,041
Not independency, but interdependency,
because we need each other

604
00:42:57,074 --> 00:42:59,176
as a community, as a society.

605
00:42:59,209 --> 00:43:06,116
For example, you can sing well, I
can write great songs, but I can't sing.

606
00:43:06,150 --> 00:43:10,821
If you can perform the songs
that I created, then maybe

607
00:43:10,854 --> 00:43:14,959
we can create the next hit of Spotify.

608
00:43:14,992 --> 00:43:17,328
Deal.
[Laughs.]

609
00:43:17,328 --> 00:43:19,697
When do we do that?
Tomorrow?

610
00:43:19,730 --> 00:43:23,500
Of course, my tomorrow is open.

611
00:43:25,135 --> 00:43:27,204
When did you start with RAMPD?

612
00:43:27,237 --> 00:43:30,641
I know you have an important
role in RAMPD right now.

613
00:43:30,641 --> 00:43:35,145
Everybody has an interconnected role,
as you were saying.

614
00:43:35,145 --> 00:43:41,785
But thanks to people like you and people
who are leading us through some paths,

615
00:43:41,785 --> 00:43:44,021
we are making it even better.

616
00:43:44,021 --> 00:43:45,823
Can you talk about your role in RAMPD?

617
00:43:45,823 --> 00:43:47,391
Yeah, of course.

618
00:43:47,391 --> 00:43:54,164
Also at RAMPD, yes, I have an important
role, but I'm just a student of RAMPD.

619
00:43:54,198 --> 00:43:57,201
I'm learning because RAMPD has a pretty

620
00:43:57,234 --> 00:44:01,605
unique culture, let's say, commercial

621
00:44:01,605 --> 00:44:06,977
culture or professional culture, and a
unique approach and vantage point when it

622
00:44:07,011 --> 00:44:11,648
comes to accessibility and disability
justice and also disability culture.

623
00:44:11,682 --> 00:44:17,354
Also, my story started
with RAMPD last year.

624
00:44:17,621 --> 00:44:23,594
It was an amazing moment
for me because I've been following

625
00:44:23,627 --> 00:44:29,299
to RAMPD since it's first founded
and made their first launch event.

626
00:44:29,299 --> 00:44:35,139
But you have to have some decent career
successes if you want to be a pro member.

627
00:44:35,172 --> 00:44:40,944
Not decent, but you have to have - 
You are in the way of building your career.

628
00:44:40,944 --> 00:44:47,684
The partnership - or membership committee, 
sorry - reveals your application, then

629
00:44:47,718 --> 00:44:49,787
you can become a pro member or not.

630
00:44:49,787 --> 00:44:54,558
Luckily, last year, I became a pro member,
and I jumped into the PR committee

631
00:44:54,591 --> 00:44:58,095
because, as I told, no is not
an answer for me anymore.

632
00:44:58,128 --> 00:44:59,763
I always say yes.

633
00:44:59,797 --> 00:45:04,034
Okay, now I have a chance
to a member of committees.

634
00:45:04,068 --> 00:45:09,073
Okay, I jumped into the PR committee
because that I think that

635
00:45:09,106 --> 00:45:11,575
I can make some contributes.

636
00:45:11,608 --> 00:45:16,380
And one month later, I became the co-chair

637
00:45:16,413 --> 00:45:22,252
of the PR committee because we don't have

638
00:45:22,286 --> 00:45:30,494
a lot of members in the PR committee, but
we build it together with Lachi, Marsha, Mark - 

639
00:45:30,494 --> 00:45:38,702
Mark Erelli, Marsha Elle, Lachi,
and our brilliant content lead, Sal, Salvador -

640
00:45:39,536 --> 00:45:43,273
we started building that 
PR committee, and we come up

641
00:45:43,307 --> 00:45:47,277
with creative projects at RAMPD.

642
00:45:47,311 --> 00:45:52,416
So it became the cool guys'
table at RAMPD right now.

643
00:45:52,449 --> 00:45:55,285
You can call it on me!
[Laughs.]

644
00:45:55,285 --> 00:46:01,358
So in one year, because I had 
a chance to spend a lot of time

645
00:46:01,391 --> 00:46:07,097
with Lachi, thanks to PR Committee, 
I learned more about RAMPD and disability culture 

646
00:46:07,097 --> 00:46:12,903
and disability justice.
Then I want to be part of the leadership

647
00:46:12,903 --> 00:46:15,038
because I want to be a decision maker

648
00:46:15,072 --> 00:46:18,575
because of my huge personality.

649
00:46:18,609 --> 00:46:23,380
As Lachi said, because I'm a tyrant.
[Laughs.]

650
00:46:23,380 --> 00:46:26,617
I always have evil plans.

651
00:46:26,717 --> 00:46:32,856
These are Lachi's opinions.

652
00:46:32,890 --> 00:46:35,159
I don't know if these are accurate or not.

653
00:46:35,192 --> 00:46:36,226
We'll see about that.

654
00:46:36,226 --> 00:46:42,599
But then I ran for the elections
for the secretary role, and I became

655
00:46:42,633 --> 00:46:48,972
the secretary, and Marsha Elle from the
PR committee became the vice president.

656
00:46:49,006 --> 00:46:56,480
We ran to the elections together
without knowing that we're running.

657
00:46:56,513 --> 00:47:04,454
I gave my vote to Marsha,
and she gave her vote to me.

658
00:47:06,023 --> 00:47:10,060
The RAMPD members voted us, and we became
the part of the leadership.

659
00:47:10,060 --> 00:47:15,599
Now I have a more important role, and it's
getting more serious because

660
00:47:15,632 --> 00:47:20,737
now I have a responsibility because I'm
representing the whole members,

661
00:47:20,771 --> 00:47:26,543
and I have to be an example
because fighting with the accessibility

662
00:47:26,543 --> 00:47:30,581
and building a career at the same time is
a delicate situation,

663
00:47:30,581 --> 00:47:33,083
as you perfectly know.

664
00:47:34,418 --> 00:47:37,788
Yes, some parts are protected by the law,

665
00:47:37,821 --> 00:47:42,426
and you can always turn people in.

666
00:47:42,459 --> 00:47:49,266
You can always
use the legal system to get your rights.

667
00:47:49,399 --> 00:47:51,935
But is that the only way doing it?

668
00:47:51,969 --> 00:47:58,242
Or is that the most, let's say,
efficient way to do it?

669
00:47:58,275 --> 00:48:00,978
Because in the end of the day,
you want to build a career.

670
00:48:01,011 --> 00:48:04,281
You want to make friends,
not make more enemies.

671
00:48:04,314 --> 00:48:07,517
Yes, you are right.

672
00:48:07,551 --> 00:48:13,557
You're fighting for a good
reason, but is that efficient, really?

673
00:48:14,224 --> 00:48:18,729
Making those decisions, 
deciding what to do is 

674
00:48:18,729 --> 00:48:22,599
pretty tough time to time.

675
00:48:22,633 --> 00:48:28,905
RAMPD tried to bridge that gap
because we provide consultation

676
00:48:28,939 --> 00:48:32,709
to the big organizations like

677
00:48:32,709 --> 00:48:37,414
Recording Academy, 
Grammys, who organize,

678
00:48:37,447 --> 00:48:40,617
who runs the Grammys.

679
00:48:40,651 --> 00:48:47,291
Live Nation, companies like Netflix,
Sony Pictures, and more and more.

680
00:48:47,324 --> 00:48:51,295
Because we're providing consulting to them

681
00:48:51,328 --> 00:48:54,765
because they want to be more accessible,

682
00:48:54,798 --> 00:49:00,103
and RAMPD can provide that knowledge
to them, how they can be accessible.

683
00:49:00,103 --> 00:49:03,840
RAMPD can be a bridge between the disabled

684
00:49:03,840 --> 00:49:07,511
artists and fans and these huge venues

685
00:49:07,544 --> 00:49:12,516
and organizations who run 
the entertainment industry and also

686
00:49:12,549 --> 00:49:19,222
the companies like Netflix, streaming
platforms like Netflix, and more.

687
00:49:19,222 --> 00:49:26,530
Using the diplomacy channels,
providing knowledge, providing our

688
00:49:26,563 --> 00:49:30,867
expertise to them, first, 

689
00:49:30,867 --> 00:49:34,338
make them more accessible, 
also change their mindsets

690
00:49:34,371 --> 00:49:35,706
of these big organizations.

691
00:49:35,739 --> 00:49:41,545
They start thinking, Okay,
being accessible is a crucial thing.

692
00:49:41,545 --> 00:49:45,315
It should be the default.

693
00:49:45,415 --> 00:49:47,050
And RAMPD created it.

694
00:49:47,084 --> 00:49:54,057
RAMPD created that mindset in the
industry, and we're still creating it.

695
00:49:54,091 --> 00:49:55,859
It will be a long journey.

696
00:49:55,892 --> 00:49:57,761
It will be a marathon.

697
00:49:57,794 --> 00:49:59,663
It's a marathon right now.

698
00:49:59,663 --> 00:50:04,935
But as a member of leadership, when you're
faced with the situations, you have to be

699
00:50:04,968 --> 00:50:09,306
two times careful because I'm not
representing myself anymore.

700
00:50:09,306 --> 00:50:10,974
I am representing RAMPD.

701
00:50:11,007 --> 00:50:12,809
I'm representing the leadership.

702
00:50:12,843 --> 00:50:17,180
I'm representing the members,
and I have to be an example to them.

703
00:50:17,180 --> 00:50:22,886
In our townhomes or when I'm collaborating
with some pro members of RAMPD, because

704
00:50:22,886 --> 00:50:25,922
as you know, RAMPD is a great ecosystem.

705
00:50:25,956 --> 00:50:31,795
You can start a project from an idea
to the red carpet by only working with

706
00:50:31,828 --> 00:50:34,598
the brilliant members of RAMPD.

707
00:50:34,631 --> 00:50:39,503
As you know, you are one
of these brilliant members of RAMPD.

708
00:50:39,503 --> 00:50:42,139
Also, I have some friends.

709
00:50:42,172 --> 00:50:47,577
Also, I met with some remarkable talents
like Mark Erelli has also

710
00:50:47,611 --> 00:50:50,080
an episode in ArtsAbly.

711
00:50:50,647 --> 00:50:56,086
We have to make an example because
we have also community members who just

712
00:50:56,119 --> 00:50:59,423
started creating their careers,
and they're struggling, too.

713
00:50:59,423 --> 00:51:02,626
It's hard.
It's a fight of every day.

714
00:51:02,626 --> 00:51:07,831
We also, as the members of leadership,
time to time, terrified, frustrated

715
00:51:07,864 --> 00:51:08,899
because of the situation.

716
00:51:08,932 --> 00:51:13,203
But as the member of leadership
of RAMPD, as the secretary,

717
00:51:13,236 --> 00:51:15,105
I know that I can solve it.

718
00:51:15,105 --> 00:51:17,174
I know that I can use a diplomacy because

719
00:51:17,207 --> 00:51:22,546
I'm trained to do that as a natural-born

720
00:51:22,579 --> 00:51:28,118
problem solver out of the box
thinker as a natural-born diplomat.

721
00:51:28,151 --> 00:51:29,419
I know all the problems.

722
00:51:29,453 --> 00:51:31,188
I know bridging the gaps.

723
00:51:31,188 --> 00:51:36,526
As a resourceful person,
I can gap those bridges,

724
00:51:36,560 --> 00:51:42,566
gap those - Bridge those gaps 
by myself. Sorry.

725
00:51:42,599 --> 00:51:45,435
English is not my native
language, as you can guess.

726
00:51:45,469 --> 00:51:49,139
So be merciful.

727
00:51:50,607 --> 00:51:51,808
But that's the thing.

728
00:51:51,842 --> 00:51:55,278
It can be really tricky time
to time because you also

729
00:51:55,312 --> 00:51:58,915
have a career and you're faced
with the difficulties on a daily basis.

730
00:51:58,949 --> 00:52:03,887
But as a media composer, I can work

731
00:52:03,920 --> 00:52:07,457
from my cave, from my island, as Lachi

732
00:52:07,491 --> 00:52:11,027
said, time to time, our fearless leader.

733
00:52:12,295 --> 00:52:16,867
But also as a musician, as someone who

734
00:52:16,900 --> 00:52:20,036
attends to the premieres or festivals,

735
00:52:20,070 --> 00:52:22,439
yeah, there are some inaccessible stuff.

736
00:52:22,472 --> 00:52:26,576
Most of the things, taking care
of my lovely guide dog,

737
00:52:26,610 --> 00:52:29,446
beloved guide dog, Blut. 
But...

738
00:52:29,446 --> 00:52:31,348
Blut means Cloud in English.

739
00:52:31,348 --> 00:52:34,184
But it still can be tricky.

740
00:52:34,184 --> 00:52:36,419
It's a still fight.

741
00:52:36,453 --> 00:52:42,325
But as far as I know that, we are the
architects of the future as a disabled

742
00:52:42,325 --> 00:52:47,264
community, and we can design the future.

743
00:52:47,264 --> 00:52:52,035
We are the correct futurists because
we are the natural-born inventors,

744
00:52:52,068 --> 00:52:54,638
natural-born problem solvers.

745
00:52:54,671 --> 00:53:00,443
So that makes us natural architects,
natural futurists, because we

746
00:53:00,477 --> 00:53:03,813
have been building our feature.
Nobody helped us.

747
00:53:03,847 --> 00:53:06,816
We are the ones who are helping ourselves.

748
00:53:06,850 --> 00:53:10,987
Now we became together,
thanks to organizations like RAMPD,

749
00:53:10,987 --> 00:53:16,726
and we connect with each other thanks
to projects like ArtsAbly.

750
00:53:17,127 --> 00:53:24,668
And thanks to those projects,
organizations, these platforms.

751
00:53:25,101 --> 00:53:31,775
Since we came together and we start
creating together, when we start creating

752
00:53:31,808 --> 00:53:37,647
together, we can show the industry
to the world, see, we are all

753
00:53:37,647 --> 00:53:43,753
disabled professionals and we create
some top-level works of the industry.

754
00:53:44,621 --> 00:53:51,094
Also the fact that being here, being
present, being a part of the picture

755
00:53:51,127 --> 00:53:55,398
and having these conversations
with these people in order

756
00:53:55,432 --> 00:53:58,902
to have this change of mindset happen.

757
00:53:58,902 --> 00:54:01,371
This is really, really important.

758
00:54:01,404 --> 00:54:06,176
I think RAMPD does it very well because I
remember having this conversation

759
00:54:06,209 --> 00:54:11,982
at the very beginning of RAMPD
when Lachi was there, I have a blink-blink

760
00:54:12,282 --> 00:54:18,255
cane, and I have these big dresses and all
the eyes are coming to me, and then

761
00:54:18,288 --> 00:54:20,223
suddenly the conversation happens.

762
00:54:20,223 --> 00:54:22,692
[Laughs.]

763
00:54:22,692 --> 00:54:25,795
I love it! It's really like, Okay, so now let's talk.

764
00:54:25,829 --> 00:54:29,165
What do you do for these folks
who are also in the art?

765
00:54:29,165 --> 00:54:31,701
Okay, let's talk now.

766
00:54:31,701 --> 00:54:34,104
Yeah, of course.

767
00:54:34,104 --> 00:54:41,344
I'm thankful to Lachi for being,
or she is being Lachi because,

768
00:54:41,344 --> 00:54:47,384
for example, I understand that attitude,
that mindset since I have a guide dog.

769
00:54:47,384 --> 00:54:54,224
Because now, before I partnered with
my lovely guide dog Blut, and I have glasses

770
00:54:54,257 --> 00:54:56,726
and I didn't use cane.

771
00:54:56,760 --> 00:55:03,800
People really don't get what I am,
didn't get what I am.

772
00:55:03,833 --> 00:55:08,104
Because sometimes they say,
You look normal, whatever normal means.

773
00:55:08,104 --> 00:55:09,906
[Laughs.]

774
00:55:09,906 --> 00:55:12,509
Or when people crash on me,

775
00:55:12,542 --> 00:55:16,046
hits me accidentally, they blame me

776
00:55:16,079 --> 00:55:18,448
because I wasn't careful enough.

777
00:55:18,481 --> 00:55:21,818
But okay, I'm visually impaired.

778
00:55:21,851 --> 00:55:23,253
Chill, relax.

779
00:55:23,286 --> 00:55:27,757
But since I partnered with
my guide dog, it's obvious.

780
00:55:27,791 --> 00:55:33,096
There are signs on my guide
dog, and obviously, she leads me

781
00:55:33,129 --> 00:55:37,200
into the venue, into the neighborhood,
to the neighborhood.

782
00:55:37,233 --> 00:55:42,138
And then, okay, I have a guide
dog, as you can see, which

783
00:55:44,274 --> 00:55:47,243
means I'm visually impaired or blind.

784
00:55:47,277 --> 00:55:49,379
Let's start talking.

785
00:55:49,412 --> 00:55:54,184
Most of the time in Turkey,
people think that 

786
00:55:54,184 --> 00:55:58,355
my dog can't see and 
I am handling her.

787
00:55:58,355 --> 00:56:00,356
[Laughs.]

788
00:56:01,224 --> 00:56:07,697
I'm taking care of her, even though
the sign clearly stands that I'm blind.

789
00:56:07,697 --> 00:56:09,232
She's not.

790
00:56:09,232 --> 00:56:15,004
But still people asking,
Oh, your dog can't see? why?

791
00:56:15,038 --> 00:56:16,306
No, she can see.

792
00:56:16,306 --> 00:56:17,440
I can't.

793
00:56:17,474 --> 00:56:20,877
When I say that, I didn't get that.
You look normal.

794
00:56:20,910 --> 00:56:24,047
No, I'm not.
You're not, too.

795
00:56:24,080 --> 00:56:26,750
There's no such thing called normal.
[Laughs.]

796
00:56:26,750 --> 00:56:31,588
What is normal? Can you 
define normal for me, please?

797
00:56:31,588 --> 00:56:33,690
Yeah, I ask, What's normal?

798
00:56:33,723 --> 00:56:36,192
Then the conversation ends.

799
00:56:36,226 --> 00:56:39,496
See you!
[Laughs.]

800
00:56:40,363 --> 00:56:43,366
With a smile and shaking hands,
okay, waving hands.

801
00:56:43,400 --> 00:56:44,400
Okay, see you then.

802
00:56:44,400 --> 00:56:48,605
It's great to meet with you and
your dog who is blind.

803
00:56:48,605 --> 00:56:50,840
No dog can see.
I am blind!

804
00:56:50,840 --> 00:56:52,942
[Laughs.]

805
00:56:55,044 --> 00:57:01,618
One time, a family approached me and asked
that question, who of them can't see?

806
00:57:01,651 --> 00:57:05,855
They asked the question,
not me, but to my girlfriend.

807
00:57:05,889 --> 00:57:12,095
She used to those situations,
and she kept silent when they have

808
00:57:12,128 --> 00:57:17,066
to direct their question to me, but they
directed their question to someone else.

809
00:57:17,066 --> 00:57:21,304
She got silent and I say, It depends.

810
00:57:21,304 --> 00:57:26,376
Some days, I'm being blind,
some days my dog.

811
00:57:26,409 --> 00:57:28,745
Mondays and Wednesday, I'm blind.

812
00:57:28,745 --> 00:57:31,381
Tuesdays and Thursday, she is.

813
00:57:31,381 --> 00:57:32,682
[Laughs.]

814
00:57:32,682 --> 00:57:35,618
What was the reaction?

815
00:57:36,719 --> 00:57:38,121
They scared and go away.

816
00:57:38,121 --> 00:57:40,023
[Laughs.]

817
00:57:40,023 --> 00:57:42,425
Because I think they took it seriously.

818
00:57:42,425 --> 00:57:45,962
Oh! Stop scaring people, Kemal!

819
00:57:45,962 --> 00:57:47,831
I think they terrified.

820
00:57:47,864 --> 00:57:54,504
They realized that I'm a part of an alien
species, a member of an alien species.

821
00:57:54,504 --> 00:57:58,107
Oh, now they can see Mondays
and Wednesday, but the other days?

822
00:57:58,107 --> 00:58:01,911
Oh, my God!
[Laughs.]

823
00:58:02,879 --> 00:58:04,747
Okay, I have a last question for you.

824
00:58:04,747 --> 00:58:05,515
Of course.

825
00:58:05,515 --> 00:58:09,886
It's about people you might have met who

826
00:58:09,919 --> 00:58:13,423
count in your career and who have maybe

827
00:58:13,456 --> 00:58:17,894
motivated you, maybe showed you things
that you didn't know before.

828
00:58:17,927 --> 00:58:22,065
If you have one or two people
to name, who would it be and why?

829
00:58:22,065 --> 00:58:23,666
We already mentioned about Lachi.

830
00:58:23,666 --> 00:58:27,337
I've been learning a lot
from Lachi, and I'm still learning.

831
00:58:27,370 --> 00:58:33,309
Also, all members of the leadership
of RAMPD and the Team RAMPD, 

832
00:58:33,309 --> 00:58:39,516
Arthur, Anya, and Sal, I'm learning a lot from
them also and from all the pro members,

833
00:58:39,549 --> 00:58:42,819
our members of the committees.

834
00:58:42,852 --> 00:58:46,489
These are the people that I
would like to shout out.

835
00:58:46,523 --> 00:58:50,360
But there's one person I
would like to highlight.

836
00:58:50,393 --> 00:58:55,198
His name is Stephen Letnes,
founder and CEO of Able Artist Foundation,

837
00:58:55,231 --> 00:59:01,971
as I think I mentioned about him
before in this episode.

838
00:59:02,005 --> 00:59:05,408
He's my mentor, colleague,
and dear friend.

839
00:59:05,441 --> 00:59:10,146
He made the greatest impact to my life and career

840
00:59:10,146 --> 00:59:13,116
because without this foundation, 

841
00:59:13,116 --> 00:59:15,818
I won't have a career in the United States.

842
00:59:15,852 --> 00:59:20,056
Without himself, I won't

843
00:59:20,089 --> 00:59:24,093
some IMDb credits till now.

844
00:59:24,694 --> 00:59:28,364
He was a guy that pretty, let's say,

845
00:59:28,398 --> 00:59:35,838
mature, extremely talented, wise, and

846
00:59:35,872 --> 00:59:42,645
also really - how can I say?
An excellent professional.

847
00:59:42,679 --> 00:59:46,816
I've been learning a lot
from him how to handle business

848
00:59:46,849 --> 00:59:49,252
relations, how to handle projects.

849
00:59:49,285 --> 00:59:51,654
He hired me for a couple of projects.

850
00:59:51,688 --> 00:59:56,960
I was able to work as a composer assistant
and the additional music writer

851
00:59:56,960 --> 01:00:01,297
in a couple of projects like
"Surpassing Sight" or "Possibilities,"

852
01:00:01,331 --> 01:00:06,302
produced by AFB, directed by Bill Sarine,
American Foundation for the Blinds.

853
01:00:06,302 --> 01:00:10,073
It was a great documentary.

854
01:00:10,406 --> 01:00:13,843
Also, I was able to work
as the co-composer 

855
01:00:13,843 --> 01:00:15,979
in a project with him, "Love & Taxes."

856
01:00:16,012 --> 01:00:20,817
It's a feature comedy,
romantic comedy film.

857
01:00:21,384 --> 01:00:25,855
Also, without him, I don't have
connections with publishing companies.

858
01:00:25,888 --> 01:00:33,363
Without him, I won't have
music onboarded with Hitlist Music.

859
01:00:33,796 --> 01:00:40,236
Without that, the Mattel won't
synch my music for the World's

860
01:00:40,269 --> 01:00:48,344
First Blind Barbie Doll campaign and
World's First Black Barbie Doll birthday.

861
01:00:48,344 --> 01:00:53,716
Also, without that, I wasn't able
to meet with the Karina Sturm,

862
01:00:53,750 --> 01:01:01,057
a German journalist and director,
who also identify as disabled.

863
01:01:01,090 --> 01:01:06,029
Now we're working together
in a documentary about intersectionality

864
01:01:06,062 --> 01:01:09,932
in disability culture
and disability justice.

865
01:01:09,966 --> 01:01:15,405
Without him, maybe I will -

866
01:01:16,305 --> 01:01:18,741
I will have some accomplishments.

867
01:01:18,741 --> 01:01:19,742
I don't know.

868
01:01:19,742 --> 01:01:25,048
But without him, I can't
achieve them that fast.

869
01:01:25,048 --> 01:01:30,219
And without him, I can't be able to
build a career and build a professional

870
01:01:30,253 --> 01:01:32,922
character of a media composer.

871
01:01:32,955 --> 01:01:37,527
We're still working together.

872
01:01:37,560 --> 01:01:42,965
Now, I became a board member
of Able Artist Foundation most recently.

873
01:01:42,999 --> 01:01:47,503
He was kind enough
to invite me to the board.

874
01:01:47,503 --> 01:01:53,609
I think I am the first board member
who was a former foundation member,

875
01:01:54,277 --> 01:01:56,479
Able Artist Foundation member.

876
01:01:56,512 --> 01:02:03,219
So Steve has the greatest impact
in my career, in my life.

877
01:02:03,252 --> 01:02:05,722
I learned how to be a...

878
01:02:05,755 --> 01:02:10,059
I've learned how to be a, yes, I can say,
I'm a professional media composer

879
01:02:10,093 --> 01:02:13,563
with a visual disability from him.

880
01:02:13,596 --> 01:02:18,267
I can't be thankful enough for his efforts

881
01:02:18,267 --> 01:02:22,238
and for his friendship and mentorship.

882
01:02:22,472 --> 01:02:24,941
Thank you so much.
That I can say.

883
01:02:24,941 --> 01:02:26,676
It's very interesting.

884
01:02:26,709 --> 01:02:34,617
Also, it's full of connections, your life.

885
01:02:34,717 --> 01:02:40,223
It's great to be able to have one
foot in the States and to be able

886
01:02:40,256 --> 01:02:44,227
to do things in the industry over there

887
01:02:44,227 --> 01:02:47,797
and make the things evolve in Turkey.

888
01:02:47,830 --> 01:02:50,333
So yeah, very well done.

889
01:02:50,366 --> 01:02:52,235
Thank you so much, Diane.

890
01:02:52,268 --> 01:02:57,707
I really try to create a world
that I really want to live in.

891
01:02:57,707 --> 01:03:04,247
With my music, with my attitude,

892
01:03:04,280 --> 01:03:10,887
with my opinions, and with trying to

893
01:03:10,920 --> 01:03:17,727
affect people and affect
the culture of the society.

894
01:03:17,760 --> 01:03:19,095
But we're all doing that.

895
01:03:19,128 --> 01:03:23,800
You're doing that, all our members,
RAMPD members doing that.

896
01:03:24,500 --> 01:03:28,070
There are disabled professionals in
different industries that are doing that.

897
01:03:28,104 --> 01:03:34,410
We are a really big community, and
we have a really great family in RAMPD.

898
01:03:34,443 --> 01:03:40,349
So yes, it's a community, but time to
time, I feel like we are like a family

899
01:03:40,383 --> 01:03:42,919
because we're helping each other.

900
01:03:42,952 --> 01:03:48,424
I'm not helping, not say helping,
but connecting with each other,

901
01:03:48,457 --> 01:03:53,529
collaborating,
and we become bigger and better.

902
01:03:53,563 --> 01:04:00,736
So I'm thankful, highly thankful
for our community, for the RAMPD, for

903
01:04:00,770 --> 01:04:06,209
all members of the disability community

904
01:04:06,242 --> 01:04:08,978
itself, because we are the bravest ones.

905
01:04:08,978 --> 01:04:13,683
We are the most powerful ones.

906
01:04:13,716 --> 01:04:18,654
That's why we are that -

907
01:04:18,688 --> 01:04:24,627
We will be successful a lot in the future.

908
01:04:24,627 --> 01:04:26,262
And proud to fight.

909
01:04:26,262 --> 01:04:31,067
It's really that we are happy
to fight together, which is great.

910
01:04:31,100 --> 01:04:33,936
Yeah, of course.
Also, I love the taste of blood.

911
01:04:33,936 --> 01:04:35,705
[Laughs.]

912
01:04:35,705 --> 01:04:37,106
I can't say that.

913
01:04:37,139 --> 01:04:38,307
Sorry, Sorry.

914
01:04:38,341 --> 01:04:41,510
I didn't say that as a member
of the leadership, but I say as

915
01:04:41,544 --> 01:04:49,585
a media composer in Turkey,
so I never run away from a great fight.

916
01:04:49,619 --> 01:04:54,357
That's what we do in the disability
community, right?

917
01:04:54,390 --> 01:04:57,493
We never run away from a great fight.

918
01:04:57,526 --> 01:04:58,527
True.

919
01:04:58,561 --> 01:05:02,265
Well, thank you so much
for all your insights and stories.

920
01:05:02,298 --> 01:05:04,767
It was really fascinating.

921
01:05:04,800 --> 01:05:08,304
I wish you a fantastic day and talk soon.

922
01:05:08,337 --> 01:05:09,839
Thank you so much, Diane.

923
01:05:09,872 --> 01:05:14,677
Thank you so much inviting me
for this amazing conversation.

924
01:05:14,710 --> 01:05:17,213
I hope you have an amazing day, too.

925
01:05:17,213 --> 01:05:18,748
Thank you. Bye.

926
01:05:18,748 --> 01:05:19,916
Bye-bye..

927
01:05:20,783 --> 01:05:25,922
[Closing theme music]